Faith In A Divided World

What does it mean to speak about faith when the world feels fractured, loud, and increasingly polarized?

In this episode of Speaking of Faith, Bishop DeDe and Adam  wrestle with the challenges of naming Christian belief in a time marked by deep division and fear. When conversations about faith quickly turn into point-counterpoint debates—or weapons meant to prove who’s right—how do we remain rooted in the way of Jesus?

Bishop DeDe reflects on why talking about faith can feel risky right now, especially when self-righteousness often replaces humility and curiosity. Rather than arguing our way to truth, she invites listeners to begin somewhere deeper: with repentance—a willingness to change our minds, examine our assumptions, and let Jesus reshape how we see the world.

This episode calls us back to the practices that ground and transform us: scripture, prayer, and honest self-reflection. Before we rush to act or react, we are reminded that lasting change begins within. Only when we do the inner work can our outward actions reflect compassion, dignity, and love—especially toward those we disagree with.

In a divided world, this conversation offers a faithful reminder that the call of Christianity is not to win arguments, but to follow Jesus with humility, courage, and hope.

Takeaways

• Speaking openly about faith can feel risky in today’s polarized climate
• Repentance invites us to change our minds and hearts, not defend our egos
• Humility and curiosity are essential for meaningful conversation
• The urge to be right often leads to dehumanization and fear
• Jesus calls us away from self-righteousness and toward understanding
• Scripture and prayer must ground our responses to division
• True transformation begins with inner work before outward action

AI Disclosure: To support our staff in their limited time, many of our episode summaries are first generated by AI and then edited by the Communications Director to accurately reflect and preview our podcast episodes.

Transcript

Bishop DeDe (00:02.231)
Hey friends, welcome to the podcast, Speaking of Faith. My name is DeDe Duncan-Probe. I am the Episcopal Bishop of Central New York. That's Canada to Pennsylvania, Utica to Elmira, and that whole middle section of the state. I'm joined today by Adam Eichelberger. He is our Director of Communications. And we're going to speak about our faith, something that I have to say right now in the world.

Ooh, it's difficult out there. It is difficult in here. It is difficult to think about, ponder, pray about, talk about our faith in this time. Partly because I think we've become so divided. We have Christian nationalism at work in the United States and around the world, which is not Christianity and has been conflated, but is not part of our faithful narrative. We have people who disagree

mightily about what is right and what is wrong as people of faith. And so often talking about our faith can seem like the riskiest thing that we do, especially if we feel like we can't really totally back it up. If we want to say, well, I'm a Christian, but I believe X, Y, or Z, and we're not sure if we can prove that we're right. And I speak a lot in this podcast and other places about our obsession.

And I think it is an obsession about being right. And you can bring up almost any subject and someone in the room is going to want to put you straight or it may be you wants to put others straight on what is right and what is wrong, what is up and what is down. And I really understand that because in times of great stress and anxiety, our minds naturally try to go for what do I know, what do I understand?

What do I believe? What do I think is right and wrong? And we immediately want to turn to truth testing to figure out what is right, what is wrong in the situation. And then to put it forward and to speak about that. If you've watched any news programs, listen to any, I mean, you just know that right now in this world, people love point, counterpoint, point, counterpoint, point, counterpoint. It is uncommon.

Bishop DeDe (02:24.449)
to watch or listen to anything where people really, honestly listen to each other, where there isn't the predisposed desire to be right, the jump to proving they're right, and then demanding that others believe what they believe. That is all very understandable, but as people of faith, we begin with a really hard but wonderful invitation, which is to repentance.

to change our mind, to stop seeing things through what we like to believe, what we want to believe, or what we demand is right, and to start seeing through a lens of Jesus, of salvation, that we were all selfish, that we were all hard-hearted at times, and that all of us need a new way of being. And that has made even more especially difficult when you consider

the assassination of Renee Good or some of the things that are happening. And then you think, well, this is not new. people of color will tell you the physical harm and the fear, whether we're looking at, there's so many names. I don't even think I want to start to name them because I leave someone out. People who have been harmed at the hands of people in authority. Power begets power.

power and abusive power abuses. And in a country where that is true, it can be very difficult to talk about our faith because we feel like we're supposed to take a side. Most of you know, I just got back from the Holy land and boy, my goodness, people want to take a side about that too. If we're not taking a side about what's happening here in Syracuse or New York or United States, we want to take a side about what happens in Jerusalem and Israel.

All of that taking aside, positioning ourselves against one another, point, counterpoint, point, counterpoint. It doesn't lead to truth. It doesn't lead to forgiveness. It doesn't lead to wholeness or health or goodness. It leads to division. And emotionally, when we feel threatened, we just love point, counterpoint, because we feel like, I think, often.

Bishop DeDe (04:50.945)
We feel like if we just get it right, we'll feel safe. If we just get it right, then we'll feel good about ourselves. And our faith begins with a statement that we're wrong, that we need to change our mind, that we need the salvation that Jesus offers. And only when we begin with a desire to know Jesus first and foremost, can we begin to feel safe or right or good.

The world is a scary place. And at the heart of our Christian theology is a crucifixion, is a murder, is a device of torture. And yet that isn't the final page in the story. Our faith revolves around an empty tomb, an open grave, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, that nothing keeps us from the love of God. And so when we're speaking of our faith,

I believe we need to start with what we know to be true about Jesus and about God. And if we're not sure what that truth is, this is a great time to renew our understanding, to start studying scripture, to go back and review what the gospel says, and to share that and talk about that with one another. And to know that when we talk about God and we take that time to grow in our faith, it will compel us to live a different way.

You cannot learn about the love of Jesus and you cannot learn about the gospel of Jesus Christ with integrity without then acting differently. If we repent of how we, our selfishness, our greed, our ambition, our desire for power over others, then it by necessity means that we're going to change how we live in this world. We're gonna see with new eyes. And only then,

Only when we have changed our mind do we have anything good to offer this world. Otherwise, we're just another clanging gong, another loud voice demanding to be heard, another person saying this is wrong or this is right and everybody should agree with me. All of us in this moment, especially those of us of faith, I think we're called to take a moment to reflect on who we are and then to be renewed in that faith.

Bishop DeDe (07:15.765)
And to understand that that renewal is not an abdication of action. It's actually the predicated necessity before action. We cannot act if we don't know what we're acting for. We cannot speak if we don't know what we're speaking about. And just to talk and talk and talk about what we believe to be true is not going to help us. And so I'm going to take a page from my own advice. I'm going to stop there. And Adam, welcome you into the conversation.

Because I think the real import of this conversation is about how we start again, how we frame the way we're gonna speak and what we want to talk about that does bring the light of Christ to this hurting world.

Adam Eichelberger (07:59.521)
It's interesting that one of the first things you mentioned as we started our episode, this episode, Bishop, is you mentioned the need to argue. You know, it's interesting because there was a certain, I don't know where it is on the timeline of my own life. I don't know where it is on the timeline of yours, listener, but I kind of can, I think I can pinpoint it to like the mid, early to mid nineties.

Bishop DeDe (08:09.571)
Yeah.

Adam Eichelberger (08:27.202)
where there was this trajectory in media when people on the news, journalists, there was discussion, but not so much argument. And then all of a sudden, the angry, arguing, talking head shows started popping up everywhere. And I think that exactly, literally, what was it called? Crossfire. It was called Crossfire. And we kind of started...

Bishop DeDe (08:38.594)
Right.

Bishop DeDe (08:45.965)
Talking over each other. Yeah. Good.

Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (08:56.118)
reading this culture of argumentation. I have a position, mine is right, yours is wrong. And listener, viewer, let me be clear. I think that there are some things that you and I, most people can see and know from the rip. This is bad and this is good. But so much of the water has become muddy. And I think that it becomes really difficult for so many of us. I'm going to include myself. I'm not above myself.

to say like, what do we do? What do we do when there's something that we see is so fundamentally important and somebody that I know, that I love is taking such a different perspective and has such a different viewpoint on this. So guess one of the first things I wanted us to talk about this episode is what do we do with that? Because I feel like,

before I start getting into an argument, which I think is my natural response, I want to be like, well, here's why you're wrong. And all of a sudden we're, you know, it's Thanksgiving and we're throwing drumsticks at each other or whatever. But what do we do? How do we start the process? Because I feel like it can't just be, we're going to dive headlong into this very serious conversation. Like, let's take some steps back and what do we think is the best way to start addressing some of these big issues?

Bishop DeDe (10:01.174)
Yep.

Adam Eichelberger (10:18.584)
big thoughts, big feelings that we have on what's going on in our world.

Bishop DeDe (10:24.419)
Mm-hmm. Well, listener, what is your answer to that? How do you begin or how do you continue? In this world with the point counterpoint thing that's happening, and we have to recognize there are things that are non-negotiable. I am not going to approve of someone being harmed, period. Anti-Semitism is a sin. Dehumanization is a sin. Not seeing the beloved God in our

other person, not seeing them as beloved is a sin. We are created by the love of God. There are people who really are co-opted or corrupted wanting to harm other people, who really enjoy harming other people. And so how do we take a stand and say, no, that is not acceptable as a person of faith. And

to then see how we may be doing a similar thing in our unwillingness to hear another viewpoint, our unwillingness to consider that maybe someone who has a different stand than we do takes a different position, that maybe we have a shared interest we're not willing to see or able to see because we're so focused on us having a different opinion. And I think it takes so much maturity in this time.

to have conversations with people who disagree with us, because we have to validate that what we believe is worthwhile, that we are entitled to believe something, and we are not entitled to appropriate another person just to make ourselves feel good. So to put someone down to say them, the names we call other people, we've talked in this podcast about how

dehumanization and the cycle of violence of that happens. In this moment, to stop ourselves and say, you know what, I think we need to be seeking to understand. Humility and curiosity need to make a comeback. When someone says something that just is so offensive and horrible to us, to say, you know, I want to understand how it is that seems okay to you, because that seems horrible to me. You know, Jesus is talking about loving our neighbor.

Bishop DeDe (12:46.767)
And to, you know, those, the practices like the three whys, someone tells you, say, well, why they tell you another answer. You say, why, and they tell you something else that you say, why the third time that it takes three whys to get to a deeper understanding of the truth. I believe my hypothesis is that underneath all of this hate speech, all of this division, all of this

Dehumanization is fear, is a terror of being wrong, of having something taken away, a feeling of being left out or left behind, a feeling of not being adequate, a feeling of not being valued. I I was amazed to read in the newspaper the other day a group that is really filled with hate. And the headline was, they finally feel heard. And I thought, isn't that interesting that someone would feel heard

as their hate is validated? What if we were able to be heard with our humanity being validated? It's a very complex time and this is not easy. And so listener, if I sound like I'm saying, I was just easy, just ask questions. It's very hard. And our tempers want to flare because then we become afraid. And when we feel that tension or that fear to say, why am I afraid? And then,

to recognize that sometimes the people we struggle with the most are actually people with whom we agree. In the diocese, have some folks who feel very strongly one way and another group of folks who feel exactly the same, and yet how they live out that understanding is so different. And there's a temptation to want to look at one another and say, well, because you don't do this the way I am, you're less than, or you just don't understand, or you're not really committed.

we've just gotten in a bad habit of dealing with our fear in a way that weaponizes it literally against one another, where we are utilizing our fear instead of engaging our faith. And so with, know, Adam, I'm curious for you, as you talk with people and you're our communications director, so you're talking with people all the time, a lot, do you...

Adam Eichelberger (15:09.901)
A lot.

Bishop DeDe (15:13.451)
Does it resonate with you the sense that people may be very afraid?

Adam Eichelberger (15:18.703)
I think absolutely. And I think that now maybe I'm not going to say more than ever because I'm sure like just because I think that's an easy thing for me to say because being of a certain maybe age group or demographic, there are certain things in the history of this country that have not affected me as much as others. But I think that one of the things that I'm hearing the most from people in and out of pews is it seems to be spreading.

this kind of cloud of fear seems to be spreading. And it's interesting that you brought up this idea of certain groups of people finally feeling like they're being heard. And that's scary to people because like, gosh, like why does this have a place in our culture? Why does this have a place in the discourse in our country? And really what it comes down to is

Bishop DeDe (16:13.773)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (16:18.573)
And I'm not trying to over politicize anything, but it comes down to when the walls of empire are starting to contract a little bit, those who want to stay with inside those walls tend to push back on it the most. And that's when we start seeing so much blowback and so much vitriol and violence and like you said, dehumanization. It's that is what people are kind of the most.

struck by right now and we were talking a little bit about this before we started recording Bishop that there seems to kind of be like these two needs that I'm hearing so much from people which is I need to find space or not to use a buzz term but like hold space to be able to process and talk about and listen to other people who are in the similar place that where I am as I am I should say.

And then there are folks who feel like I need to do something. Like there needs to, like now I need my, my feet need to hit the pavement. And I think that one of the traps that we fall into is that those two things are mutually exclusive. So maybe that's a good thing that we can talk about now is how do we navigate that tension between I'm overwhelmed, I'm worried, I'm, I'm fearful.

and they need to be able to process all this. And also there's work that needs to be done. So Bishop, your thoughts about how, like, what do we as people of faith need to, what should we be doing or what should we be looking for? And again, listeners, like we always like to throw out the disclaimer, neither the Bishop or myself feels like we have all the answers to everything. And that's never been the point of the conversation we have around the podcast. But this is a really good way, it's a good catalyst to how do we start figuring out, okay, like,

Bishop DeDe (18:03.841)
No.

Adam Eichelberger (18:10.607)
These these lanes that I'm in what do I do with that?

Bishop DeDe (18:15.231)
It's such a good question and listener, of course, we're inviting you into the answer of it. If I could tell people what to do, which would be lovely sometimes, I would say what we need more of is Bible study and prayer. And that sounds like I'm obviously, there are a group of folks who, and just so you know, regularly people are upset with me because they want me to say, we're gonna mobilize the troops and go out there and.

And that's really important work. And we do need to go out. We need to be protesting. Need to utilize the things that are at your ready, writing your congressperson, talking with a neighbor, doing the things. Those are really wholly essential things to be doing. It is patriotic to protest and we need to make sure we're understanding that, that we protest when we want things to be better. And, or even but, before that,

What are we about? And often we go running off emotionally wanting to make a big stand, but we haven't really done the inner work, the discipleship. A lot of the folks in our pews in our church love God and love Jesus, but don't really have a grounding in discipleship. Haven't really been formed in the faith as much. When they're faced with the situation, aren't totally prepared.

I'm reminded often of when Dr. King would send out, whether it was SNCC or some of the other groups, they would have cards and they would have a prayer that they prayed before they went. And they would have things that were really important for what are we about? Not our position on things, but what is our shared interest? What does it mean to be a person of faith? What is Christianity about? What does the salvation of Jesus mean in my life?

We need to do that good inner work so that when we go out into the world, we actually have something to offer that's not just more talking points. We actually go out into the world with something that is transformative. But first we have to be transformed by it. The scripture tells us that we were transformed by the hearing of the word, that we need to be transformed by our faith first. And so to begin with prayer, to begin with reading scripture.

Bishop DeDe (20:40.643)
Not to begin with reading the headlines and getting all fired up and angry or scared, but to begin by reading something that compels us with hope and compassion. It used to be said when I was in a youth group in high school, one of my youth leaders would say, you know, look at this dollar bill. The way you can tell a counterfeit dollar bill is not by knowing all the fancy ways people can counterfeit the dollar bill.

but by staring at the dollar bill until you know it so clearly that anything that comes past that isn't a dollar bill, you spot it right off because you're so used to the truth. We need that in our lives right now. So if you're feeling listener afraid and have been feeling overwhelmed, I would encourage you to do some spiritual work, to read scripture, to pray, to talk with a trusted friend and deepen our faith.

to listen to music and to paint or to create, not that we're trying to avoid or sidestep something, but so that we can be in touch with what it is we're wanting to proclaim. What is it we're bringing to this world that's different than hate? What are we bringing to this world that's different than fear? What are we bringing to this world that's truly transformative?

The only thing we can bring to this world that is truly transformative is our own transformed life. And that begins with repentance, changing our mind, returning to the ways of God, deepening our faith, renewing our faith, and then going out. Our faith is always built to be expressed. that's why it's a, the Christian faith is an oral tradition. It just much like our Jewish siblings,

Our faith is meant to be transformative in our life and then by our life we can offer transformation to a hurting world.

Adam Eichelberger (22:38.381)
yeah, and I mean, I know for me, I don't remember, I don't know where I heard somebody say this, if it was something to the effect of, if the work that you're trying to do for the gospel isn't working, it may be because you're not inviting the Holy Spirit into the work. And you know, like you have this thing that you've said so many times on the show, Bishop, and you draw it right out of scripture, which is bring a drink of cold water. It's

Bishop DeDe (22:54.167)
That's right.

Adam Eichelberger (23:04.459)
infinitely more difficult to give somebody a drink of cold water when they're thirsty if you're trying to cup it in your hands rather than in a jar or a glass.

Bishop DeDe (23:11.901)
Yes, if you don't know what to end, if you don't even know what it is. Yeah, go ahead.

Adam Eichelberger (23:17.271)
No, and so I think that when we see that everything seems to be so hard right now and we want to affect change, if we're not inviting the Holy Spirit into that desire to form a better world in the image and likeness of God, to see God in everyone, every single human person, it's us trying to bring a drink of water to somebody with our cupped hands. Well, the Holy Spirit gives us that vessel to be able to bring it out into

Bishop DeDe (23:46.381)
That's right.

Adam Eichelberger (23:46.511)
I think that that's really important for us. do, before we wrap up, Bishop, I do have one question for you that was submitted by a listener, excuse me, a viewer named Lena, Lena, L-E-A-N-A, hi Lena, from Connecticut. And Lena wanted to ask you, what is one thing that I can do when I am feeling afraid or discouraged, especially when I see everything

Bishop DeDe (24:00.909)
Hey, Lena.

Adam Eichelberger (24:15.972)
bad that's going on all around us. That's Lena's question for you, Bishop.

Bishop DeDe (24:20.739)
Wow, Lena, it's a great question and it's especially important for all of us to consider. People who are listening, people of faith, think about how you would respond to Lena's question. Lena, think, you know, when everything about us is just falling apart and it's terrifying, to begin in a quiet space with God and to rekindle that light that, you know, when you think of the...

the song from camp about pass it on, know, it only takes a spark, that we kindle that light within us and to be reminded that God has brought us through so many things before. It's actually a really helpful practice to be re-reminded of the journey of our life, to think about those times in our life when it was really challenging and to think about how God showed up, to think about how God worked through other people.

and to be reminded yet again that God is bigger than this current challenge. And so first and foremost, to be renewed in our concept of who God is, that God is bigger. So often we think God's small and that whatever's happening around us is bigger than God's grace, but it isn't. God is bigger. And so first to kindle that vulnerable flame and then to do something that reconnects us with our innermost self.

whether it's prayer or music or art or walking in the woods, good tree therapy moment or snow therapy moment if you're in Central New York at this moment, that we reconnect with our deepest soul and to remember in our Eucharistic feast, Jesus says, do this in remembrance of me, that holiness of memory where it brings into

our current reality, the truth of God that we, the apostles gather with us and we gather with them. And so to re-remember that and then to reach out to fellow being and maybe do something for someone else, maybe take a cup of cold water to someone literally, maybe take part in the can drive. I'm always inspired by, you know,

Bishop DeDe (26:39.829)
Mr. Rogers, you know, to look for the helpers and then to be a helper and to take part in helping to change that narrative from one of despair and victimization and dehumanization and to remember that you are beloved and to begin that and to turn it around that that turning back to God is what repentance is. And so I think we all need that.

on a daily basis to be renewed in our innermost being that we will be connected with God. So thank you, Lena, for a great question. And for all of you on this podcast, as we begin to talk about our faith in terms of what's happening in our world, we're gonna have guest speakers on, we're gonna talk about some things. But in these first few episodes, I wanna really encourage all of us to reconsider our faith. And if we're really,

impatient to do something, to do something. They can only do something when we know what it is we're doing. So it may be a call to stillness and that still small voice of God that it is not in the hurricane, it's not in the earthquake, it is in the stillness that we actually hear the voice of God. So my prayer for all of us is that as we speak of faith we'll begin with stillness. We'll pray and remember God's love for us.

that will be renewed and that will be strengthened by our faith, and then that will have the courage to speak and to act to live our faith and offer a transformed life to this hurting world. May you be blessed and be a blessing, and let's speak again soon.