Shouting Down The Bear

In this episode of Speaking of Faith, Bishop DeDe invites listeners into a powerful reflection on fear, grief, justice, and courage—and what it means to speak truth to power when the stakes feel high. Drawing on the image of “shouting down the bear,” Bishop DeDe names the reality that fear is often loud, intimidating, and paralyzing—but faith calls us not to retreat, but to speak, pray, and act anyway.

The conversation explores how faith shows up in moments of grief and uncertainty, particularly when injustice feels overwhelming. Bishop DeDe reflects on the necessity of grounding ourselves in prayer first, allowing grief to teach us rather than harden us, and then finding the courage to speak honestly and act faithfully in the world.

Central to this episode is the call to rehumanize one another, especially those we disagree with. Language matters. When we dehumanize others, we cut ourselves off from empathy, compassion, and the ability to see Christ in every person. True repentance, Bishop DeDe reminds us, is not about shame or self-flagellation—it is about changing our minds and hearts so we can live differently going forward.

This episode challenges listeners to consider how faith shapes not only what we believe, but how we respond to fear, injustice, and one another. Shouting down the bear is not about winning an argument or being right—it’s about becoming holy, faithful people who trust that God’s strength meets us when we act with courage and compassion.

Key Themes & Takeaways

• We are called to pray first, then speak, then act
• Grief can open us to deeper understanding rather than closing us off
• Speaking honestly about faith can foster mutual understanding
• Repentance means changing our minds and choosing a new way forward
• Our Baptismal Covenant calls us to seek and serve Christ in all persons
• Dehumanizing language prevents empathy and healing
• Compassion is essential when addressing injustice
• Justice and dignity must always go hand in hand
• Faith gives us strength to face fear and speak truth
• It’s not about being right—it’s about becoming holy

AI Disclosure: To support our staff in their limited time, some of our episode summaries are first generated by AI and then edited by the Communications Director to accurately reflect and preview our podcast episodes.

Transcript

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Bishop DeDe (00:01.845)
Hey friends, welcome to the podcast. Speaking Of Faith, 2026, oh my goodness. Happy New Year. I have been away, I went to the Holy Land and had a wonderful visit. And over the course of the next year, I'm gonna be talking about that more and more. Today though, I wanna talk a bit about what's happening in our world and we're going to be making a transition now. We've spent the last year or so talking about.

your basics of our faith, what we believe, what we say about what we believe, and how we talk about the core of our faith, the baptismal covenant and the promises and the vows we've made before God. This year, we're gonna shift our focus a bit to how we speak about our faith in terms of what's happening in our world and how our speaking of faith leads us to action. Because one of the things that needs to be always kept in the front of our minds is that first we pray.

And then we talk and then we act. mean, this kind of movement of the faith from belief to action. that speaking of faith is very powerful when you think about the ways in which we talk. Sometimes even in life, we do and do and do, but it's not until we speak about it that it becomes real or substantive or big. So the purpose of this podcast as has been will always be is to learn how to talk about our faith.

in a time when speaking about faith can have real life consequences. In the Holy Land being there, that is exceptionally true. The conflicts there around religion and the inability to talk about difference and to have negotiations that are rooted in dignity is just an ongoing challenge. And then it was interesting for me to be in that area

and to be watching things unfold here in Minnesota and other places in the United States, and to see how we are in our own contexts. And, you know, I mourn the loss of Renee Good and grieve with her, you know, with her partner, spouse, Becca, and this moment in which all of us are watching these things unfold. And I think for today's podcast, I particularly want to talk about grief.

Bishop DeDe (02:28.077)
and the grief that we don't see the same things. Part of speaking of faith is recognizing that what I may believe may be different from what you believe, how I perceive truth may be different from how you perceive truth. And so as we talk about our faith, how might that lead us to greater understanding of one another? And how might it be healing and challenging and redemptive and

hard and good all at the same time. It's been interesting to me to watch even though frame by frame some news organizations have looked at the events that transpired and in the frame by frame it's clear that Renee Good was pulling away from but then there's a large body of people who watch that and say but she was doing she shouldn't have been there she shouldn't have been doing these things. So

As people of faith, my question to you listener is in what ways do you understand faith to be about speaking in times? Like when is it okay for you to speak? And when do you feel like maybe you should be listening more? And to recognize that right now in our world, we're grieving that we aren't all on the same page. Not all of us see things or perceive reality with the same eyes or the same hearts.

And so as people of faith, how does that lead us to greater understanding of one another? And then of course, one of the things to talk about is when is something non-negotiable? You there are things for me that are just not negotiable. I believe the dignity of every human being. It is not a negotiable for me to talk about someone in a dehumanizing way. And those times when I'm tempted to do that,

When I'm tempted to look at people who disagree with me and think what's wrong with them or they're just this or they're just that, that I need to repent of that, I need to change my mind and to speak about people with the dignity I believe in. And I was thinking about this in this last week and our readings and our services. We have this moment where Jesus says, repent for the kingdom of God has come near.

Bishop DeDe (04:44.521)
We've been hearing that in some of our passages and readings. And I was thinking about all of our conversations about repentance over the last year. And often we talk about repentance as something we're doing for the past. We're repenting from the past to the present. But when Jesus calls us to repentance, it's for something going forward. We're to repent for the kingdom of God. We're to repent for our faith to have meaning.

We're to change our minds so that we can be about what God is doing. So this year, we, you know, Speaking of Faith, kind of 2.0, we're going to be engaged in conversations about how our Speaking of Faith impacts how we live our faith. I'm looking forward to having some people join us on this podcast to have some guests and to talk about this more intentionally. And so I invite you to...

actually log in, share with, know, where are you finding it hard to speak about faith? Where are you finding it challenging to not engage in dehumanization? And how, for you, would this podcast be helpful in, you know, clarifying and practicing and preparing ourselves to really give voice and acclamation to the ways of God? And so that's something that I just want to throw out there.

really be intentional about us sharing. And then for today's conversation, I do want to focus in on what happened in Minnesota a bit. And I want to talk about what it is to be people of faith and what it is to be Americans. I'm very proud to be an American. I believe in the Constitution of the United States. I believe in the Bill of Rights. I believe how we are as a society is important.

for justice and mercy. And so I'm very committed to those things. And so of course, for me as someone who's often speaking in the public sphere, I find it very troubling and very challenging to see an American speaking out and acting their patriotism and then to be harmed by people who are meant to help protect.

Bishop DeDe (07:04.457)
You know, with our police, often say that you'll see on the sides, you know, to serve and to protect, you know, the sense of that it's for the good of society. But when we lose our ability to speak up and to give voice, that isn't for societal good. And that concerns me. It's a real grief that I have. And I sorrow with those who are grieving Renee's death because it was so senseless and unnecessary. I think that situation could have been gone differently.

But here we are today and here where there's so much dialogue about it and so much discontent and so much discussion. So for you listener and for us as people of faith, having talked about believing with the baptismal covenant that we seek and serve Christ in all persons, are we seeking and serving Christ in all persons? And what would that look like in your life and my life today?

How is it that we talk about and advocate for and act on our faith in ways that speak to justice and mercy and see Christ in all persons? And how are we seeking and serving with dignity, honoring the dignity of other humans? I was very struck by the fact that Renee Good's last words were, I'm not mad at you, to the ICE agent.

and how threatening that might have been for him. Can he trust that or maybe she didn't mean that? And so in this time, when we're talking about speaking of faith, when we're talking about who it is we want to be and believe, when we're looking at what we've repented from and what we're repenting for, how might we use our words to build up mercy, to seek justice, to work for the dignity of all humans?

and how was that lived reality part of our day-to-day lives? And so, Adam, I'm gonna invite you into this conversation because it's a complex one. It's not one we will solve today. This is kind of a framing of the years podcast. is kind of a what's coming next, but also an acknowledgement that as we record this, people are trying to figure out how to grieve and sit and...

Bishop DeDe (09:24.042)
and speak about these actions and these things that are happening in our world. So I invite you into the conversation and you listener as well.

Adam Eichelberger (09:34.37)
First thing that kind of comes to my mind, the first thing that kind of comes to my mind, Bishop, is when you talk about this term grief, which is something that we've talked about extensively on the show. And I feel like it's really important for me, I don't know about you listener, but to understand the different types of grief that we experience, we've talked extensively about when we lose a loved one or a relationship falls apart, the sadness that we feel.

Bishop DeDe (09:44.073)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (10:01.664)
about those things. The thing that you always say, those that we love but see no longer. And I think it's really important for us to understand when we look at what happened in Minnesota, what happened to Renee Goode, that these things, there is a grief about it because we see something so tragic, so senseless, that it strikes at our very core as human beings. It kind of makes me remember in Romans, I think it's Romans chapter eight,

Bishop DeDe (10:07.518)
Right.

Adam Eichelberger (10:30.584)
where Paul talks about that all of creation is groaning. And there's this deep sense within us that when we see these horrible things happen, we are longing for the peace of God that surpasses all understanding that we're not living out. That's what I hear when I heard you talk about that as you started the show this episode is because we're not all on the same page. There's so much division.

Bishop DeDe (10:35.934)
Right.

Bishop DeDe (10:51.413)
No.

Bishop DeDe (10:57.865)
No.

Adam Eichelberger (11:00.184)
whether it's here in our state, here in New York, across our country, around the world. The first thing that comes to my mind when it comes to moving this speaking of faith into how we act on our faith is re-humanizing the people around us. Because I think I'm going to speak for myself. It's really easy for me to see people in power abusing that power, taking human life, and for me to dehumanize those people.

Bishop DeDe (11:00.468)
Yeah.

Bishop DeDe (11:12.586)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (11:17.489)
Yes.

Bishop DeDe (11:29.363)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (11:30.744)
But at the end of the day, those are also children of God made in God's image and likeness. And I have to be mindful of that. The same way that René Goode was a child of God created in God's image and likeness. And I think that the first thing that I wanted to kind of ask is how do we start having the conversations? What do we need to start talking about to start moving in that direction?

Bishop DeDe (11:38.367)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (11:58.882)
because so much of this comes down to these labels that get thrown on. I'm not going to this. I want you to understand listeners. I know I'm ranting a little bit, but so often we hear people use terms that dehumanize agitator, disruptor, domestic terrorist. And these aren't angled at a political party or a political figure. But when we use those terms, I feel like that dehumanizes the person. Now it's no longer Renee Good, who

Bishop DeDe (12:13.001)
Right.

Adam Eichelberger (12:28.994)
had a partner who had children, who was part of a community, a worshiping community. Now it's something less than human, I feel like. So what do we need to start doing to start moving the conversation to rehumanizing people and moving into action to how we can rehumanize people around us?

Bishop DeDe (12:47.931)
Mm-hmm. Well, it's such a good question. And listeners, you're probably way ahead of me with your answer. mean, Adam, one of the first things that comes to mind, I say it often and I believe it, is we need to have humility and curiosity. I mean, the humility to look at the situation and to not rush to, well, I know what was right and what was wrong. Or I've watched something on the news, so therefore I have an informed opinion.

Adam Eichelberger (13:11.661)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (13:16.687)
And it used to be we would talk about making sure you're an informed person. And that meant watching the news, reading the newspaper, being up to date on facts and stuff. But the thing is, all of us are seeing what happened in Minnesota through the lens of media and through the lens of someone else's eyes. And so we were not there. And so first and foremost is to have the integrity to stop ourselves from rushing to...

assumptive behavior and assumptive thinking, where we just assume we know, to first seeking to understand. And so with people, when you're talking about dehumanizing, which we do just so much right now, it's rampant in our society and all around, and it's just happening. And the temptation to dehumanize those who are dehumanizing is just the thing. So to first of all, stop and to say, you know, this seems so wrong to me.

know, Renee Goode was in her own neighborhood. This is where she was raising her children. These are her neighbors who were being suspected. And so to have the humility to say, maybe I don't understand everything. Maybe I don't see everything. And then to have the courage to say, given what I do see, my hope for America.

is that people can live in safety and dignity, that people can be affirmed. And so that balance between feeling entitled.

Well, I didn't turn my phone off. So let me start over. I'll pause. You know, and let me put this on silent. Sorry.

Adam Eichelberger (14:58.84)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (15:08.209)
It is on silent. What did that ring?

Bishop DeDe (15:14.709)
Okay. You know, the entitlement of feeling that we're right is not helping us. Because if you listen to the news, and I was hesitant to write or speak about this, because everyone's talking. Everyone's just talking away. And in the midst of this, this is a tremendous grief that a fellow citizen was harmed, is a grief to me. That the people who are meant to be

Adam Eichelberger (15:14.914)
being entitled.

Bishop DeDe (15:43.525)
supporting justice in our nation, maybe harming people who are innocent victims is a sorrowful thing. And that we also need to recognize that people who are serving and believing they're making the nation safer have come to that with a desire to serve their country. so, we need to push pause just a little bit and look at something with a whole.

with a willingness to be wrong. And then when we have done the work, when we haven't just assumed that this is right, because this agency has said it or this person has said it, but when we've looked at it and we see wrong, to then have the courage to say it's wrong, which is one of our, you know, Bill of Rights, it's one of our freedom of speech, the constitutional, to be able to critique our country and say, look, this is not right.

These things should not happen to our citizenry. We want a nation that is more just, more merciful, more kind. This is not how we, we do not approve of harm. And so to be about that and then to talk about it. So I think it takes both a willingness to recognize we may be wrong. And then when we have a real commitment and we've done the work of making sure that we understand the situation.

to then advocate for the beliefs we have, but to do it in a way that doesn't cast the opposing voice as somehow less than. These are not humans, these are robots. This isn't RoboCop that we're talking about here. These are human beings and who may be wrong and may need to be held accountable. And how we do that needs to, we need to be the message we want to see.

I mean, Gandhi was really right about that. We need to act in the ways that are in accordance with what we believe most dearly.

Adam Eichelberger (17:42.99)
Hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (17:48.438)
Well, it's interesting that you you talked about this idea of repentance and it's important for me. I'm going to again, I always like to try and speak for myself. I'm not going to try and speak for you listener, but I think it's really important for me to be mindful of the fact that repentance is what is not a part of condemnation, right? We are called. We are called to repent because we want to draw closer into the relationship with God that we're supposed to have. And this is not like

Bishop DeDe (17:52.607)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (18:06.451)
No, right.

Adam Eichelberger (18:17.09)
This is not something that we do to avoid damnation or something like that. We repent because of the great love that God has for us that we're supposed to pour out onto others. And the reason I bring that up as we kind of keep this conversation going about how we rehumanize people. is a practice in the Episcopal Church. And this is something I learned as I started worshiping in Episcopal community, that it is a part of our prayer when we come to church on Sundays that we pray for

Bishop DeDe (18:33.589)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (18:46.892)
president. Right? This is in a sense, this is something that we do. And it's not something that we do just based on our agreement with the person who is in that position. Right? And this is really important for me in the work of rehumanizing people, because I feel, and I'm not going to say that this is something that's particular to the current administration, there are plenty of times where sitting presidents have done and said things that I wholeheartedly disagree with. And I think that that could be true of anybody.

who says that they're a Christian or people who don't say that they're Christians. There's plenty of things that presidents do that we disagree with. And I'm not trying to power rank this. I'm just trying to give some context. It is really important to me that we continue to pray for the president. We continue to pray for repentance for the ICE agent who did this. Not because we feel like we're better or superior. Not because

Bishop DeDe (19:27.238)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (19:39.241)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (19:45.078)
We're even coming at it from this kind of very Calvinist or kind of reform perspective of like, need to do this or you're going to go to hell. But because that they are formed in the image and likeness of God, that this is a person who does deserve our prayer, who deserves the ability to repent and reserves the ability to, as you've talked about in the podcast, be restored and healed and made whole. How do we start squaring the injustice that we see?

Bishop DeDe (19:52.894)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (20:05.641)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (20:14.54)
with the call to compassion that we're called to so often because Jesus calls us to be compassionate over and over and over again. And sometimes it feels really hard when it feels like everything is on fire. So what do we do to kind of lean into that call to be compassionate and to pray for those, like Jesus says, pray for those who persecute you.

Bishop DeDe (20:18.527)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (20:38.345)
Well, first, the thing that comes to mind for me listener, and again, this is a conversation for all of us, I think of Jesus with Pontius Pilate. You see that I am. And Jesus engaging in that moment, you don't have Jesus in that moment calling him names or being derogatory or in any way sort of, you have this clarity and of course you can.

You know, I can hear you now, those of you who are into theology, yes, Jesus has a purpose and in that moment there's a greater thing that is happening. However, when we look at the way in which we engage others, my hope is always to engage difference more like Jesus than human. And not that I know what Jesus would do clearly, but if I sound like everybody else, if I'm just angry too,

Fighting fire with fire does not work. And if we need to understand that if you fight fire with fire, you just get a bigger fire. What we need to fight fire with is the grace of God. And so that means having compassion for the person looking at whether it's an ICE agent or a boss or a parent or someone who has power over us who is misbehaving or acting badly to have the eyes of compassion for them.

which is different from approving of or just being a doormat. To have compassion for someone of power is to say, this person's acting out of a lot of brokenness. And so I'm gonna pray for them, but I'm also going to set boundaries because if we approve of harming others because we're trying to be compassionate about something, that isn't holy.

But when we have compassion for someone who's harming others and advocate for change and set boundaries, the balance of it, it's more of a balance than a picking a side. That is when real change starts to happen. And when we recognize that this situation, while we want to reduce it down to a woman in a car and an agent on the ground with a gun, this moment was a bigger system than that.

Bishop DeDe (22:58.953)
This is about how we all together look at one another as enemy or friend, combatant or colleague, that all of us together create a culture in which these kinds of things are happening. So we also can help create a culture where these things might not happen as often or as frequently. Not that we have control over people, but that we begin to pay attention to how our own rhetoric leads to something like this.

When we're, you talked about praying for the president. I will say it, it surprises me all the time. The frequency with which I hear from priests or lay leaders, do we have to pray for this political partisan person? Do we have to pray for the president? Do we have to pray for the governor? Do we have to pray for these people? Because I don't like them. Well, good heavens. That isn't really why we do it at all. We pray.

because all of us together are advocating for a more just society. And so we pray for them, as you said so well, a person of God to be transformed by the love of God. I want our president to be transformed by the love of God. That doesn't mean I always approve of everything. I want our governor to be transformed by the love of God. And that is not a, you know, Christian centric stance, whatever someone's faith is. I want the truth of

love and divinity to have bearing in our world. And so I pray for those things. And when I see harm being done, especially to innocents, especially to people who do not have power, my responsibility for the gospel is to speak and advocate for. And you said a minute ago about repentance. We have this really terrible hold over about what repentance is, you that it's condemnation. You need to repent because you're not good enough for God. You need to repent because you're just, you know,

not doing the right things. Repentance with Jesus is an invitation. Change your mind and be part of something bigger. Return to the ways of the God who created the universe is inviting you to be part of creating a world that is more like God than not. And so we're invited to change our minds so that we can then act in accordance with the teachings of Jesus.

Bishop DeDe (25:25.105)
And that means, dear friend, getting back to talking about the baptismal covenant and the things we've talked about before, it means that when we speak of our faith, we're not speaking of our faith through our lens of human fear or animosity or whatever. We speak of our faith through the hope of resurrection, through the invitation of repentance, knowing that we are not perfect, but we are seeking to serve God in each person.

And so we're willing to be wrong and we're willing to be courageous and speak up and say what's right. Maybe especially if it causes us to personally be harmed. And in this, we get back to Renee Good and we get back to people like her who have stood in the gap and said, look, I don't like what you're doing. I want people to be treated with respect. And sometimes that may be met with hostility. It may be met with harm.

But our call to faith is that God is bigger and that we are repenting for actions that lead us to speak and advocate for the love of God in all circumstances and to understand that sometimes those circumstances can be hard and difficult and challenging.

Adam Eichelberger (26:38.356)
Absolutely. I think that maybe one last thing that I wanted to ask you as we wrap up our conversation this episode. I heard it one time, and I don't know about the actual accuracy of this, but I heard that the most common phrase that's used in Scripture is some permutation of be not afraid. That that is one of the most common things, phrases that's used throughout the entire canon of Scripture.

Bishop DeDe (27:00.436)
Yes.

Adam Eichelberger (27:06.634)
So my question for you as we wrap up Bishop is this in light of everything that is going on, where do we draw that bravery or that strength from when we see so much going on around us when we all seem to be so afraid, even when it feels far away from us and it's not impacting us directly because it's not happening in my backyard. I'm using air quotes for those of you listening. Where do we draw that strength from? What are the ways that we as

Bishop DeDe (27:19.765)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (27:28.906)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (27:33.824)
community because this is our community here on Speaking of Faith. How do we draw that strength to no longer be afraid? Your thoughts.

Bishop DeDe (27:41.173)
Well, and that's a whole podcast. let's jot that down and we'll make that a whole podcast because it's, um, it is, that's a complex answer from my point of view. Listener, I don't know about for you. mean, clearly, you know, my colleague, Mary and buddy wrote a book on how we learned to be brave. then the follow-up book, um, there's plenty of philosophers and people who've talked about where courage comes from the courage of conviction that when you are

Adam Eichelberger (27:47.128)
Fair enough.

Bishop DeDe (28:08.169)
When you have true conviction, don't feel fear, you feel your conviction. For each of us, I think it begins with identifying and speaking and having clarity about what we truly believe. And then recognizing that our life, our life matters. And if we're going to make our life count, we're going to need to live courageously.

All of us feel that feeling of wanting to withdraw and be safe at times where we just think, the, you know, not speaking would be better here. And I just don't want to get into it with so-and-so. And it's just too difficult to talk about these things. But then the thing that starts happening is we start losing respect for ourselves and we start feeling helpless. We start feeling hopeless and we feel greater fear. It is a really good metaphor. The understanding of like when you, when you meet a bear in the woods,

One of the things that you don't run away from it and you turn around and face it and then you make yourself as big as possible and get loud and big and you shout down the bear. When we feel afraid, we need to shout down the bear. We need to face our fears and recognize that it's our conviction and our faith that will carry us over. And I fear more not being in right relationship with God.

than in running from what scares me. You have to face your fears, you have to work through the situation, be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, Scripture tells us, and always, always understand that when we face down the bear, when we lean into our faith, then we feel alive and that we are fulfilling that invitation of God to repent for the kingdom of God, that we are a

about something that's bigger than ourselves. And that's where our courage comes from, is the courage of our conviction ultimately. Well, do we have any questions today? I don't think we do, because it was end of the year. Do we have any listener questions? I think no.

Adam Eichelberger (30:16.043)
No questions this episode, Bishop, but hey listeners and viewers, we do encourage you to submit your questions. You can do that on any of the podcast platforms you listen to or any of the platforms in which you view the podcast. You can drop them right in the comments or you can go to our website cnyepiscopal.org and click the podcast button. There's a button right there where you can ask Bishop any questions that you may have for speaking of faith.

Bishop DeDe (30:40.831)
Well, friends, I turn the baton over to you to begin to speak about your faith. And as we lean into now speaking about our faith and how does that mean we then live? How will we respond to situations? How will we be part of the healing and redemptive grace of God being lived out in our world in this time? is never to forget, it's not about being right.

It's about becoming holy and God's people in this world. So I invite you to continue the conversation and pick it up from here. Send in your questions and comments, what you'd like to talk about, and I'm looking forward to a great year with you. So let's speak of faith and may God be praised. Blessings to you and we'll talk very soon.