The Baptismal Covenant: Part 8

Summary

In our final episode on the Baptismal Covenant, Bishop DeDe invites us to explore the complexities of faith and vulnerability. The conversation emphasizes the importance of striving for justice and peace among all people, encouraging a deep reflection on personal beliefs and relationships with others. Bishop DeDe highlights the challenges of living out these principles in daily life, advocating for humility and a commitment to change as essential components of faith.

Takeaways

• We often speak about faith with uncertainty.
• Vulnerability in discussing faith leads to greater understanding.
• The baptismal covenant is foundational to our beliefs.
• Striving for justice and peace is a challenging commitment.
• Striving begins internally, with our thoughts about others.
• Repentance is necessary for striving for justice.
• Faith is fundamentally about relationships.
• We must respect the dignity of every human being.
• Striving for justice includes all people, not just those we agree with.
• Living out faith requires humility and a willingness to change.

AI Disclosure: To support our staff in their limited time, many of our episode summaries are first generated by AI and then edited by the Communications Director to accurately reflect and preview our podcast episodes.

Transcript

Bishop DeDe (00:02.558)
Hey friends, welcome to the podcast, Speaking of Faith. We're going to talk about our faith. I know some of us grew up being told never talk about religion, politics, or money, which has led to us not being able to talk about religion, politics, or money. And so this podcast is about relearning or learning for the first time how to talk about those things that are most important to us. So welcome to this podcast. My name is DeDe Duncan-Probe.

I am the Episcopal Bishop of Central New York, that is, Canada to Pennsylvania, Utica to Elmira, and all the beautiful people and places in between, and I'm joined by Adam Eichelberger, who is our Director of Communications, and we are here to speak about faith. Now, if you've been following the podcast, or if you haven't, over the last month or so, we've been talking about the baptismal covenant. It is the foundational

covenant we make with God and one another as people of God. In the Episcopal Church, there are prescribed times of the year and services when we renew our baptismal covenant. We once again reaffirm we will be about these principles or these ways of being. And so today we have gotten to the last bidding of the baptismal covenant. If you are new, no worries. After you listen to this podcast, you can go back

pick it up from the beginning. But what is important to know is this bidding comes at the end, so those other biddings all help us get to this space. And so here's today's bidding. Will you strive for justice and peace among all people and respect the dignity of every human being to which we respond, I will with God's help. Now in order to strive for justice and peace,

which right away might bring something to mind for you, to remember that in the context of our baptismal covenant, striving for justice and peace begins with understanding who God is, who we are as God's people, that we're going to repent of our own sins, which is a word that's been misused, but to change our mind that our ways are not the ways to health and happiness and goodness, but God's ways are. So we're going to change our mind.

Bishop DeDe (02:29.648)
and we're going to see God's ways, that we're going to strive for our lives to be an example of the way of God. And then when we have done that, we're going to seek and serve Christ and all persons loving our neighbor as ourself. And out of that work of love, out of that work of relationship, then, and only then will we strive for justice and peace among all people. This isn't a coercive, you must be just and peaceful.

This is a living out of what we hold dear, what we believe most about life. And so striving is a wonderful word here because it really lets us know that this isn't about accomplishing something. It's not ticking a box and doing it. It's that we're going to keep going in this ongoing work of justice and peace building, that we're gonna be part of this work.

and that we're going to respect the dignity of every human being because this justice and peace work is among all people. We're not just seeking justice and peace for the people we like or the people who agree with us or the people that have something that we want. We're going to strive for justice and peace among all people.

And that work begins internally. It begins when we are convicted that something that's happening in our world or something that we are doing is causing conflict, is not peace building. When we take a position and then seek to just defend that position at all costs, we are not filling this bidding. So in an argument with someone when we're certain we're right and don't want to hear it about what the other person's saying.

That's where we need to go back a few steps in that baptismal covenant, repent, lay down our selfish certainty that we're right about everything and take up humility and authenticity and say, you know what, I really believe this, but it's keeping me from hearing you. So let me hear you more fully. And that is peace building work. That is justice work. That everyone's voice has importance.

Bishop DeDe (04:50.696)
that it matters to us to understand one another. And then respecting the dignity of every human being in this world that is so fraught with dehumanization that looking down on other people, well, they're just that as if they're less than. It is just rampant in our world, dehumanization, whether it's Republicans and Democrats, male, female, it just everywhere people

are really caught up in dehumanization. And the work of the gospel is humanizing and is really the divinity that we are created in God's image. And so when we seek and serve Christ in all persons, we're seeking to acknowledge that God is in all persons. And that when we are striving for justice and peace, we're striving for justice and peace because our faith tells us.

that God has created all, is in all, and is guiding us to be more than just our greed or selfishness or pride or hard-heartedness. So to strive for justice and peace among all people is quite a high order. It is difficult, especially when you think of driving down the road, for instance, or going to the store, and especially this time of year.

When everyone's at the stores and everyone's busy and kind of shoving each other to get the toy, striving for justice and peace might be stepping back from that and just being different energy in that space where we go to the mall or go to the store. And while everyone else is looking very stressed and frazzled, we find our center and we take a beat and we pray and we see the people around us as people and not just, you know, things getting in our way.

And then respecting the dignity of every human being. That is a really tough one often for us because respecting the dignity of every human being.

Bishop DeDe (06:58.472)
means that whatever positions or opinions we have, if our positions and opinions don't involve a respect for difference, an acknowledgement that our way that's most comfortable to us might not be somebody else's way, we need God's help with those things. So here in the baptismal covenant, we've been through all of the biddings. And so this one is the ultimate one, the cumulative effect of will you strive for peace?

justice and peace among all people and respect the dignity of every human being. And so I ask you listeners, speaker, how will you embody that in your life? How might today you make a change or look at the way something's been happening to live into this bidding and not, let me just say, have it always be about somebody else. It may be the person you're not respecting.

is actually yourself. So respecting the dignity of every human being means respecting our own inner self and our inner life as well. So that brings us to open this up to conversation. Adam, as we talk about this bidding, what is percolating for you? What's alive for you in this?

Adam Eichelberger (08:19.622)
One of the things that's really stood out to me as somebody who, relatively speaking, is new to the Episcopal faith. It's been a journey that I've been on over the last two-ish years or so. And we've talked about that a little bit on this podcast. One of the things that really stands out to me in this, in the Baptismal Covenant, is this first half that we've talked about in previous episodes is about what it is that we believe. And then the second half really focuses in on the work that we are called

Bishop DeDe (08:27.412)
you

Adam Eichelberger (08:48.974)
to do and I feel like this one, like you said Bishop earlier, this is kind of like everyone's favorite one, but I feel like it's the hardest to do. And the thing that really stood out to me about this bidding is when it talks about striving and when I hear that word striving, it kind of feels like to me that we have to have room for grace because we make fail.

Bishop DeDe (09:05.95)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (09:16.128)
It doesn't mean that we're going to succeed in it. So I guess my first question for you as we are having this conversation about about this bidding in the baptismal covenant is what do we do when it feels like this work is so hard or what do we do when it feels like we're failing to do the work of justice and peace, when it feels like we're failing to recognize the dignity of every person? Because I think for many of us,

Bishop DeDe (09:16.443)
yeah.

Adam Eichelberger (09:43.383)
especially in the Episcopal Church, it's easy to see or try and see the dignity in every human person. But sometimes when it comes to those that we oppose or we may have disagreements with, I think is maybe the better way to say it, that then we stop seeing that inherent dignity. So let's dive into that a little bit. What does this striving look like, especially when we might be failing at it?

Bishop DeDe (10:06.95)
it's such a good question. And listener, I always encourage you to be like, how would you answer this thing for a minute? What you would say in response, you know, the temptation, I think one of the sins that we're always tempted to fall into or to act out is to become the monster, quote unquote, that we're trying to fight, quote unquote. So I think one of the reasons people love this particular bidding and they do repeat it often, this is the most.

The one previous to this to seek Christ in all persons, to love our neighbors ourself. And then this one to strive for justice and peace among all people and respect the dignity of every human being. Often these are the two that people really sort of latch onto in a way that I think is not the meaning of these two biddings. In some ways it's, know, respect the dignity of.

every human being you people, you know, and there's almost a, a feeling and I have heard it from people. I've even been in conversations where someone has said to me, well, they just need to remember, they need to respect the dignity of all people because they're so stupid. It's like, okay. I'm backing up the train just a little bit. That bidding means that there's not a they.

in that sentence. And I want to be careful here because I want to be sure to acknowledge that they is a very good, important, useful pronoun, and it needs to be utilized in the ways that it is for gender equality and for people's understanding. And there is not a time in our lives when the person that we're opposing in opinion and whatever

when that person ceases to be a child of God, the people that we may look at as being our opponents are still children of God. And so that means that we have just as much capability of dehumanizing as they do, which we often fall into. And so our understanding of respect, the dignity of every human being often is a call to arms.

Bishop DeDe (12:29.396)
to oppose someone and say they should change. Instead of looking at it and saying, why is it I'm having such a hard time seeing the humanity of my neighbor and demanding it of someone else when I'm not actually willing to do the work myself? And I see this a lot when people talk about right now with refugees or LGBTQ plus persons or other ableism, elderly issues. often as humans are

talking, talking, talking about those people, not recognizing our own blindness to how we're treating our parents or how we're treating our literal neighbor or how we're going about in the world and whether we are actually part of striving for justice and peace. It's a very challenging, this is a very challenging bidding. And I think if we have listened to the previous one, we'll come to it with humility.

Now what do we do about it? Because that's part of your question too, is what do we do when we fail? Well, that's part of striving. Perfection is not one of the cards we get. Anytime we think we have perfectly done something is an invitation to humility, to recognize that we probably have failed in a way. But that doesn't mean we give up.

It doesn't mean, well, I'm gonna fail anyway, so why even try? This really is about the journey, not the destination, make the famous quote. It really is about the ongoing work, because each time we fail, we have an invitation from God to allow God to come into that situation. And so we look at our failing as failure, as

embarrassing, demoralizing, all of the things. And yes, there should be some shame involved when we feel bad that we haven't done it right. That's a useful emotion that keeps us humble. And when we feel ashamed, the next step is where the truth lies. Do we apologize? Do we make amends to someone? Do we sit down and say, all right, Lord,

Bishop DeDe (14:50.162)
I've been trying to strive for justice, but I'm just so angry. And then to say, okay, so anger is a secondary emotion. Where am I feeling grief? Where am I feeling really sorrow and sadness in this time? And how am I processing my sorrow and my sadness? And am I just using that as a wedge against someone else? And so to do that inner work, because then what happens?

And this is where liberation theology is such a gift to us. Because when we do that inner work and we unlock that dark closet we've been avoiding, we suddenly find the truth does set us free and we can be liberated in a really deep, powerful, spiritual way and made new and freed up to live more fully into what God wants for us to find peace, to find reconciliation and restoration.

within ourself and with other people.

Adam Eichelberger (15:52.292)
That's those are all really good reminders for us that like the work involves failing and when we fail taking inventory of what it is that we feel like we failed at and not to beat ourselves up about it because we're never going to get it all right.

Bishop DeDe (16:04.564)
No, and the only one who's surprised that we fail is us. mean, God's not sitting there going, oh my heavens, you blew it. Oh, that's why God came to come to us with Jesus, because we're going to blow it. It doesn't mean we give up on getting it right. It means that we have compassion. The justice and peace building for many of us needs to start with our own inner dialogue with ourselves, for always tearing ourselves down.

Adam Eichelberger (16:08.547)
Right.

Adam Eichelberger (16:16.643)
Yeah.

Bishop DeDe (16:34.484)
for always belittling our own lives. If we're dehumanizing our own souls, then we need the redemptive grace of this passage, because we need to stop doing that. We need to recognize that God delights in us and loves us, and our succeeding and failing, failure really is not an option. There's really no way to fail, because we already are failures in that way. And again, this isn't...

Adam Eichelberger (16:46.617)
Yeah.

Bishop DeDe (17:04.274)
you know, saying, it's okay then, don't even try. It's saying, you know, quit thinking perfection is what you're about. What you're actually about is the striving and the beginning again, because each time you get a little bit stronger, you get a little bit closer, you get a little bit more, and you experience what God's grace is a little bit more, is always another opportunity to experience God's grace afresh. And that is a gift and a blessing and worth the journey.

Adam Eichelberger (17:33.2)
100 % agree, 100%. I got one more thing that's kind of been rattling around in my brain about this bidding. And then we do, I do have one listener submitted question that I want to ask as we wrap things up. we'll tackle my question or our question listeners, and then we'll get to your specific question that we have submitted. As we are sharing this with all of you, we're rapidly approaching Christmas. It's just around the corner.

Bishop DeDe (17:39.124)
you

Bishop DeDe (17:43.252)
Woo!

Adam Eichelberger (18:00.584)
And it reminds me that we kind of key in on these names of Jesus as we're looking towards the incarnation, as we say in the church. And one of these titles is Prince of Peace that we use for Jesus. And obviously the covenant in this bidding highlights the need for peace. And for me, I'm going to speak for myself and listener, I don't know if this resonates with you at all. Sometimes that concept of peace can kind of feel abstract because where I am in my life in the region of the

Bishop DeDe (18:04.625)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (18:30.251)
United States in which I reside, we're not war torn. You know, there's no outright conflict going on. So what does the work of striving for peace look like for those of us in parts of the world where there isn't that kind of conflict happening? Because we see it happening. And obviously, I feel like we're compelled to do what we can from where we are.

Bishop DeDe (18:32.98)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (18:50.803)
Mm-mm.

Adam Eichelberger (18:56.035)
But what does striving for peace look like in our local community? How can we live out that bidding to strive for peace when we're not in a war-torn region? Bishop, your thoughts.

Bishop DeDe (19:07.733)
Well, I think we are in a war-torn region. I mean, one, I think when you look at racism, homophobia, sexism, when you look at the battles over land rights, whether it's where neighbors fences or how we drive our cars, when you look at the division in our society between Republicans and Democrats and independents, when you look at there's

Right now is a time of great conflict in our world. And this is a natural thing that happens after pandemics. And that's, really important listener. If you haven't known this, let me share. After a pandemic, whether it's bubonic plague, cholera, Spanish flu, COVID, there is a pattern that humans go through. And one part of that pattern is more conflict.

And right now, domestic abuse is through the roof, alcoholism and substance use disorder. We are in a place where there's a lot of conflict. And if you listen or think, right now, this moment, do I feel peace in my soul? Do I feel a sense of wellbeing and a sense of peacefulness? I would be surprised if...

there was at all a majority of people who said, absolutely, I feel great. Most of us are feeling bad about ourselves. We're feeling like we don't quite have enough, like we don't really know enough. We are feeling a little bit shaken by things that we're seeing with shootings at Brown University and with things happening in people's lives that disturb us. And so the idea of peace and Jesus being Prince of Peace,

We are very much like the shepherds guarding their flock or anyone else, the apostles even in the upper room, which is later in the story. Jesus comes to us and always starts with, peace be with you. Do not be afraid. And whether it's the angel bidding or anywhere else, do not be afraid. We're very afraid right now. We're afraid that we're losing things. We're afraid all over.

Bishop DeDe (21:29.81)
So I would say that that is hard. And so the idea of being connected with peacefulness is not an easy thing right now. I've talked with so many people whose self-esteem is kind of a little bit low. We need to be taller, smarter, stronger, skinnier, whatever, but to be at peace? So I think Jesus being the Prince of Peace,

comes to us with this gift of saying, you know what, you are loved beyond measure. God is with you, you're not alone. And in this time and this season where grief is so rampant, we always, I've been talking about this in all these podcasts with you, Adam, but you know, Thanksgiving, we gather around a table to give thanks and there's loss there. Christmas, we're buying presents and putting them under a tree, there's loss there.

There are presents that are not under the tree for those we love and see no longer. There are things that have happened this year that we thought would go differently that didn't. And so the lost hopes and expectations of what we thought 2025 would be. There are all kinds of aspects of our lives that push us away from peace. But when we stop and draw close to God and especially think about God coming to us as an

infant. We wouldn't have done it this way. If we were God, we would have come with trumpets and horses, and we would have come with power and said, look, dude, I'm in charge and you're going to get with the program. God comes to us as a naked baby, needing to be cared for, needing to be fed. And so our faith is a working out. It's not a ascent to an ideal. It's a working out in our souls.

of receiving the Prince of Peace and of drawing close to peace and of recognizing that those things we hold against ourselves and against God may be the very place that God is blessing us with healing. so peace comes when we're good with God. And that doesn't mean everything's resolved. It means peace that passes understanding, because it's not about having, it's not about doing, it's about a being.

Bishop DeDe (23:50.748)
In the midst of the chaos, we're at peace because our being is at peace. And so I think it's very challenging right now to be at peace, but that's why Jesus comes to us.

Adam Eichelberger (24:00.793)
100%. yeah. All right. So our listener question that was submitted to us, one of the great things I love about this podcast is how it fosters dialogue and gets us thinking about these things that are everyday parts of our faith. And one of the things I've really enjoyed is hearing what you guys think and your thoughts.

And it's great that oftentimes the questions or the comments that get submitted to us are kind of in line with the things that we're talking about or perhaps we believe. This is our first time receiving a question from somebody who listens that's not exactly in alignment with what we believe. So this one's a little bit of a new, we're treading into some new waters here. This is a question from Dana. Dana is listening from Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And Dana shared.

Bishop DeDe (24:50.622)
Hey, David.

Adam Eichelberger (24:51.758)
that they came up in a conservative evangelical leaning church background. But as Dana's gotten older, gotten a little bit interested and curious in the Episcopal Church. But Dana says, it seems to me that oftentimes the Episcopal churches that I have found are more social justice group than a church. How do you reconcile

the need to outwardly practice faith and belief in Jesus, along with these causes that seem to be so important. So Dana kind of feels like sometimes we're taking the Jesus out of everything we're doing. I really do appreciate this because I feel like even though it's not, I don't necessarily agree with what Dana's perception of our tradition is. I think it's important for us to hear that. So Bishop.

I want to turn that over to you. I want to turn over Dana's thoughts and comments to you. What do you have to say about those times where it feels like maybe we're reeling back from an outward practice of faith in our Episcopal tradition?

Bishop DeDe (26:03.826)
Wow. Well, first of all, Dana, thank you for writing in and I have to say, kind of agree with you. mean, today, Adam and I are going to take, this is part of speaking is where there's two different takes where both faithful people seeking things. this podcast is to, this is a very vulnerable podcast to do. Let me just say the things that we're talking about, I'm actually practicing right now.

I have no idea what's coming when Adam asks a question. And so I'm responding and just talking about it, which is what I'm encouraging you to do. Because we're not, I'm always questioning people who think they're so right. Because I'm like, how in the world did you think you were gonna be so right when it's so beyond us? God's goodness and grace is so beyond us. And yet I believe it with my soul. Dana, I think you were really,

speaking my language, I have to tell you. Because sometimes I get very frustrated with the Episcopal Church, to be honest with you. And I'm a bishop, so get to say these things. I'm frustrated because people don't understand that our focus on social justice comes from this baptismal covenant, where we strive for justice and peace among all people. It is a commandment in this covenant, if you want to put it in that language of commandment. It is a covenant, a promise we've made to God that we're going to be about these things.

respecting dignity work and justice work. And if we just do that, then we negate the whole first part of the baptismal covenant that talks about who God is, who Jesus is, who the Holy Spirit is, that we're gonna follow the apostles and walk in their way, that we're gonna repent of evil, that we're going to live as an example of Jesus Christ, that we're gonna be formed in the faith.

Fourth bidding is that we're going to be formed in the faith. And that begins with an internal belief in Jesus Christ. It begins with a growing and understanding of scripture and tradition and reason, of learning about what we believe, like this podcast, you know, learning to speak about what we believe. That is so essential. It's so much easier and often what people want to do is they want to run off and do social justice.

Bishop DeDe (28:21.17)
because they aren't sure what they believe. So inherent in this podcast is to stop and say, wait a minute, we need to talk about what we believe. Then we can go, and when we go out to work on social justice, it is rooted in faith, not just opinion. And opinion is fine for all the things out there. You know, I often say, and Dana, you'll probably appreciate this, I'm known to say, and this is no,

The Kiwanis Club does a great thing. They're really intent on building up good things and doing good things. But the church is never meant to be a social organization like that. We're to be the body of Christ. And if we don't know who Jesus is, how in the world can we say that we're the body of Jesus? And so to live in faith is to draw close to Jesus, then to go out and to practice social justice.

And if we want to just talk about Jesus and talk about Jesus and talk about Jesus, but turn a blind eye to the reality of what's happening for refugees or LGBTQ plus or the elderly or ableism. If we're turning a blind eye to that and are just sitting in the church and trying to, we're just going to be the church, but we're not going to take part in those things, then we're not telling the truth because the gospel of Jesus will always compel us.

that we have to be about social justice. So it's not one or the other. One flows from the other. We grow in our faith and we do our faith. But if we're doing our faith without having a faith, it does become like a brass and a clanging gong like St. Paul would want us to talk about. So I really appreciate the question, Dana, and I hope you'll keep seeking because all of us together growing in our faith, speaking about Jesus and learning what we believe.

and then taking that belief and living it, being it, striving for justice and peace among all people, respecting the dignity of all human beings because we have begun with the love of God that has come near to us, the Immanuel God with us. So in this season, and keep those questions coming because I welcome the opportunity to talk, especially if you disagree, because often that is where we learn more about what it is we think.

Bishop DeDe (30:45.076)
When we speak about our faith, it's to be open to different ways of understanding and seeing that help all of us see more clearly the beautiful diversity of God and the giftedness of being in a relationship with a God that's bigger than our opinion, bigger than what we know. So with that, we will go forward into the season of incarnation, of embodiment of God. And I wish you a blessed season of incarnation, a blessed Christmas.

May you be blessed and be a blessing and keep speaking. We'll speak again soon. Take good care.