The Baptismal Covenant: Part 7

In Part 7 of our series on the Baptismal Covenant, Bishop DeDe explores what it truly means to live out the promise: “Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself?”

This episode invites listeners to examine both sides of that question—how we seek Christ in others and how we honor the Christ within ourselves. Bishop DeDe reflects on the importance of recognizing every person as a living expression of God, while also naming the spiritual and emotional cost of only serving others without acknowledging our own needs.

We often imagine Christian service as self-forgetfulness, but this conversation challenges that assumption. Genuine love of neighbor requires a grounded, honest love of self—not self-erasure. When we deny our own needs, emotions, or humanity, our service becomes distorted, even toxic, and it becomes harder to truly see Christ in others.

Takeaways

• Seeing Christ in all persons means seeing people as whole beings. Each person—your neighbor and you—is a living expression of God. Honoring that truth requires space for real expression, emotion, and individuality.
• You cannot serve others by disappearing yourself. When we only help and never allow ourselves to need help, we stop functioning as full persons. The Baptismal Covenant calls us to love others as ourselves—not instead of ourselves.
• Taking up space is part of sacred identity. Being made in the image of God includes your own capacity to feel, express, and take up space in the world. Neglecting these parts of yourself harms both you and your relationships.
• Neglecting your own needs creates unhealthy patterns. Self-denial framed as virtue can become toxic, leading to resentment, burnout, or an inability to recognize Christ’s presence in others.
• Seeking and serving Christ requires mutuality. Love flows in both directions—giving and receiving, supporting and being supported.

AI Disclosure: To support our staff in their limited time, many of our episode summaries are first generated by AI and then edited by the Communications Director to accurately reflect and preview our podcast episodes.

Transcript

Bishop DeDe (00:02.081)

Hey friends, welcome to the podcast. Here we are to speak about our faith, which in this day and time, I think is a courageous thing to do. My name is Dee Dee Duncan Probee. I am the Episcopal Bishop of Central New York. I'm joined by Adam Eichelberger, who is our Director of Communications. And we are here today to speak of our faith, something that either people are doing a whole lot of or not at all. And I want to be clear.

You know, in this day and time, we need to be very clear when we talk about our faith, what we're speaking about. Christian nationalism is a sin. And so when we think we're speaking of our faith by talking about Christian nationalism, that we need to recognize that that's a call to change our mind, to repent, and to lay that sin down. Jesus didn't come to us so we can have a country. Jesus comes to us so we can be saved and be restored.

and be unified with God and God's purposes. So it's in this podcast, our conversation is around speaking of our faith and life giving, vibrant, empowering ways. And to speak about our faith to also with humility and curiosity. This is not a podcast to tell you what to think. This is not a podcast to say we know it all. This is a podcast to open up.

and invite all of us with curiosity and humility to a deeper understanding of God and God's purposes for our lives. And so with that preface, let me invite you into this conversation. I hope that it is empowering for you and curious for you and maybe makes you want to learn more or have conversations. We have been talking about our baptismal covenant in the Episcopal Church.

This is a baptismal covenant that is known in other denominations. Your faith, whatever it may be, maybe this is something that's completely new to you, but I welcome you to the conversation wherever you are in terms of your desire to speak about faith and your curiosity. So we've talked about the covenant is a bedrock in the Episcopal Church. We talk about who we say God is in the first three biddings.

Bishop DeDe (02:26.466)

We talk about continuing the apostles teaching and fellowship. We talk about growing in our faith. We talk about the commitment to be living our faith in example of what we say and what we do that how we live is always part of what we believe. And so the interplay between that and then today, and with each of these biddings, I should say is we will with God's help, we respond that it takes God's

grace to do these things, to repent of our sinfulness and to do these things. But today we get to a bidding that often is very popular for people because they kind of like it. But I want to caution when we start to talk about it, the challenge of this bidding. And so here it is. Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself? And we respond, I will.

with God's help. Now, a few months ago, someone said to me, you know, I tried loving my neighbor as myself and it just didn't work. And I said, you know, it really didn't because we love our neighbor not to coerce them into being different or to love them until they change and are kind of what we like, or we love them until they get that they are just, you know, really annoying. We love our neighbor.

because that's how we are transformed. And we love our neighbor because we recognize in our neighbor that other people are beloved persons of God too. And so we're not the only ones. And that our faith isn't about being right. It isn't about exerting power over someone. It isn't about telling someone that they're wrong. It's about an innate understanding that we need to change.

we need to seek a different way. And I think all of us can look at this world and see that our high mindedness and our desire to be right at all times and to be know at all, that it isn't working for us, it's just dividing us. And so when we speak of our faith and especially in this bidding, that when we're going to love our neighbor as ourself, that it begins with seeking to seek and

Bishop DeDe (04:52.556)

I mean, look at the wording here. Will you seek and serve? Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons? That what we're looking for and what we're seeking and what we're desiring to do is to be compassionate about God's created blessedness in all people. And I don't know about you listener, but sometimes this is a tough one because we see in other people, well, what we see first is

what we don't like about them, their brokenness, how they might scare us. What we see in them is foreigners to us maybe. And instead we're making a covenant with God that we will seek and serve Christ in all persons. That we will love others as if not only the way we want to be loved, but as if it's Jesus, as if it's Christ himself. And that can be a hard thing in this world because so much of what's happening around us

is dehumanizing and divisive and I want to be right at all costs and you don't know who I am and don't you know who I am and all of that and this bidding we're covenant thing with God that we're going to be different than that and that we're going to recognize in another person God's beloved creation and this means this is a hard thing for us because it means that whoever that is that you're opposing whoever it is that is

challenging to you, whoever may even be oppressing and harming you. That when we seek and serve Christ in all persons, it changes how we look at one another. And I wanna be clear in saying that seeking and serving Christ also means that we set boundaries. It doesn't mean anything goes. Loving your neighbors yourself doesn't mean, okay, well, I'm just gonna be a doormat and they can do whatever they want. No, that isn't loving.

People need boundaries. And those of us who have children or those of us who have pets or children, furry children, know that boundaries are really part of a whole and healthy being that we need to know when we need to stop or say, I'm sorry, or set a boundary about things. So it isn't loving to say anything goes. We wouldn't let, you know, our children do things that are harming and say, well, you know, I can't really set a boundary because, know, to seek and serve.

Bishop DeDe (07:19.992)

Christ in all persons means, I seek what's best for all of us. That as people and people of God, loving our neighbor, seeking what's best for another person means, it's not about me being right, it's about me being compassionate the way Jesus is. It's not about me asserting power, it's about me sharing power. It's not about me holding all, it's about me offering all.

And so this is a complex bidding. And I think we do it a disservice to think that it's easy or they were just gonna be nice. Because seeking and serving Christ might be saying to someone in power, no, that is not the way of Christ harming other people. Or no, I deserve to be respected too. And so I'm gonna love you enough to tell you the truth.

So these are challenging things. And I think this bidding is a lot more difficult than we often give it credit for. And I think that it's something that we do need God's help to fulfill. So Adam, as I'm talking about this, what is sort of percolating for you and what thoughts or questions come to your mind?

Adam Eichelberger (08:40.29)

I think for me specifically, when I focus in on or I think about or I pray over this bidding in the baptismal covenant, it seems really easy on the surface, especially for those of us who are kind of like in the church world, because like this feels like a no brainer, right? We're going to seek and serve Christ in others, right? And we're going to serve them. So like, it's really easy for us to key in on those who...

are in need. Those who are struggling, those who are, as we talked about on this podcast before, on the margins, who absolutely need the love and care of Christ and the church. But you're right. All of this is really hard. I mean, it's demonstrated and we have to say every time we affirm these biddings, we will with God's help. So we're acknowledging we can't do it on our own. But one of the first things I wanted to ask you about Bishop Deedee is the really important

Bishop DeDe (09:28.994)

Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (09:34.201)

The really big thing that stood out to me in this bidding is in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself. Because I feel like whether we're breaking it down into the teachings of Jesus or more colloquially, we think about like the golden rule, treat others the way that you would want to be treated. I think that maybe that's a hard part. I'm gonna speak from my own experience. It is a hard part for me. Much of my upbringing in the church kind of revolves around, I gotta put everybody before me.

Bishop DeDe (09:40.973)

Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (09:51.191)

Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (10:03.966)

And so how do we as people who are kind of exploring or navigating our faith love ourselves well so that we can love others well?

Bishop DeDe (10:18.204)

my gosh, it's so essential. And I'm so glad that you asked and that we're having this part of the conversation because otherwise this becomes kind of a toxic bidding. If we're always helping and it's all about the other person, then we cease to be a person because part of being a whole being is that we take up space, whether verbally, physically, emotionally, whatever that we are.

an expression of God. And so what this bidding really, when you seek and serve Christ in others, you're saying that people are living expression of God. And so if they're not expressing anything, then they're vacant. And it's a challenge for a lot of us who were brought up that we're supposed to help, help, help, help, but never need anything. Well, then it's kind of toxic, isn't it? If I'm just helping, then

The victim is the person being helped and I'm somehow superior because I don't need help. And there's this interesting paradox and reality that we all kind of know is that person who will not let you help them because they're going to help you first. And the closer we get to that behavior, the more we realize that it's an abuse of power because then we've ceased to be fellow human beings and we've become the helper.

and the help E and those two things are not to be crossed. And when I'm around people who refuse help, it's important one to recognize it so that we can be aware of this power imbalance. But then to take that to heart and say, when have I been the person who's insisting on being the helper and refusing the mutual relationship of being a help E. And so one, there's that dynamic in that.

But then two, self-help and self-care, we seem to have this kind of issue as humans where it's either self-indulgent or self-care. And a lot of times we fall into the self-indulgent thing where it's just me, me, it's this narcissistic kind of care where it's just, want to, you know, all me. And that isn't what this is saying either. We need balance. We need.

Bishop DeDe (12:44.716)

we need boundaries when someone tells us no, are we offended and feel kind of insecure about it? Or do we feel like, good, thank you for letting me know that's a boundary for you. I have a better understanding of my dynamic here. Insecurity and self, you know, we often will punish ourselves and we can punish ourselves with self-indulgence, which is an interesting reality of humans. So this balance of

the helper and the helpee for it to be mutual and to be something that when we need help, we ask for help. And when we have help to give that we offer help and that when that help is received to say, respect that you don't want my help right now. The more we are part of this movement of loving as we love ourselves, the more we see the reciprocity of it, the more that we can build trust and integrity.

When we are insisting someone receive our help, then we are dehumanizing them. When we insist that we are only helper and you're the helpee, we're dehumanizing things, including our own souls. And it's really, this isn't easy. And there are times when we think, but I'm loving my neighbors myself. And later in life or at some point later we realize, no.

I was just trying to deal with my own anxiety and making them the target of me helping helped me feel less like I was vulnerable. And so it is not easy. We do need God's help with this. It is a very, very complex part of being a human being in relationship with one another and God.

Adam Eichelberger (14:30.879)

That's really important. And we have talked about on this podcast the importance of self-care and realizing that we are also in need. You know, we can't be these vessels that are constantly pouring out and never being willing to be filled ourselves because then we're not able to give, we're not able to serve, we're not able to live up to that bidding that we're supposed to accept. So I go ahead, yeah.

Bishop DeDe (14:36.192)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Bishop DeDe (14:54.764)

Well, and let me, let me say one other thing. mean, I don't know, listener, if you've had times where you needed help and you felt awkward asking because it felt like you were, shouldn't need help that humility, anyone who's in, in 12 step programs or anyone who's in, dealing with, you know, mental health issues knows that to be able to say, I need help is a sign of strength, not weakness.

It's a sign of wholeness, not incapacity. To say we need help is to acknowledge that we are human. It is an important essential part of being a human being. But go ahead.

Adam Eichelberger (15:37.936)

Yeah, absolutely. The second thing I wanted to ask before we get to we do have a listener question this week. How? How can we? Live up to this bidding when so many of the so many of the people around us, so many of our neighbors and we talked about this before in the podcast, but I was hoping maybe we could go into it a little bit deeper when they can be so challenging or when we seem to have such fundamental differences.

Bishop DeDe (16:06.584)

Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (16:06.755)

with people, you know, I mean, we have talked about this as a staff in the diocese. We've talked about it with our clergy. We talked about it with people in our pews that are our parishes, our people in our pews are so diverse in who they are as individuals, but also in their beliefs and ideologies. And sometimes these things can really kind of clash. So how do we love and serve others when that can be so challenging? Like, is there a time

Bishop DeDe (16:19.062)

Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (16:34.177)

in your own life or in your own ministry where you have had to really lean into this bidding in what you do as a bishop.

Bishop DeDe (16:43.122)

my goodness. How long do we have? How long is this podcast? Yes. we all, mean, listener, you right now, if you think about in your life, there's, I think it's really hard sometimes to, to navigate this bidding, especially because we associate seeking and serving Christ and all persons with being nice and really seeking and serving Christ and all persons is at times to be clear.

Adam Eichelberger (16:46.593)

No.

Bishop DeDe (17:12.984)

And that clarity is kindness, that truth is kindness. But truth often hurts. You know, truth will disturb you before it feels good. Truth is hard. And so, seeking and serving Christ in another person is when that other person says, know, when you did this, it really hurt me. And the first thing we want to do is justify it. So, but I didn't mean it, and I was this and I was that. Instead of looking at the person saying, you know,

I am so sorry and I apologize that that hurt you. I also want to acknowledge that I was hurt because of X. And so to have a mutual relationship. So yes, and there's times when seeking and serving in Christ in all persons means it may not be helpful for us to be around a particular person or situation where part of it is, you know, there's no, this is so broken.

It can't be repaired in this life. so I'm going to honor that it may be best for us to, to not be in relationship because, my presence is not helpful and this situation isn't helpful. And, it's tender work. It really is. It involves us being truth tellers to ourselves, to be able to receive and offer truth. And then also.

to admit when we're wrong and our feelings and then to repent, to change our minds. I want to connect, to repent means change our minds or to seek the way of God. So yes, we use, think all the time in my ministry. There are times when, listener, you may be, people have these ideas about me. They'll think that I've done something or not done something or we'll get letters sometimes in the diocese where someone says, I know the bishop thinks this and I'll think,

No, I don't. I don't think that. But to recognize it's not really about me. It's about all of us being whole people.

Adam Eichelberger (19:18.041)

That is absolutely true. Like I love that you said all of that. So here is our question for this week. This question comes from Shane. Shane is a recent high school graduate. Shane got out of high school, went into the military. Shane shared that they grew up Episcopalian, but they're really far from home and haven't really been able to connect with the church. And the reason why I really wanted to ask Shane's question

this week is because Shane asked at the root of Shane's question, what are some ways that I can best serve and love people when I'm far from home and I don't have a church that I go to? So it sounds like Shane hasn't really found a parish to connect with. They are a little bit more mobile than most because they are in the military. They're moving around and stuff like that. So what are the ways that we, guess in

Bishop DeDe (20:03.778)

Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (20:13.219)

the light of this bidding from the baptismal covenant. How can we live this out when maybe we don't have a place to put down roots and we feel like we're not really in a community to serve? How do we do that? How can Shane do that? And maybe the rest of us.

Bishop DeDe (20:27.276)

and Shane, just want to thank you for your service and for your dedication to being a person who serves others. that is very, you know, I just want to thank you for that right off. and then for your question, of course, and reaching out, they, you know, it's, the first thing that came to mind with your question actually was Jesus saying, you know, that where's my home? Like the birds of the air, you know, I have no place to call my own.

Jesus traveling and moving and throughout Jesus' ministry, there's this aspect of it that is also traveling. Now Jesus had people with whom he traveled that he had close relationships and so community with that traveling life. And that may be true for you that there are people now in different areas, different bases, different places you've served where you have communication with them.

And so things like Zoom or phone calls or to keep those people close to you, to maintain those relationships where you can call and know that the person at the end of the line is somebody who knows you in some capacity. And then when you are at a new base, you know, to take advantage of some of the things that the military does offer in terms of getting settled at a new base, to look for the chaplains who were at the bases and to connect with those chaplains.

as appropriate. And then just like you did here is to ask the question and to say, Hey, I'm looking for people who can share, you know, being community with me. it starts with us being willing to reach out and to be creative. each listener, you probably have many, ideas of how you do this in your own life. You know, whether it's joining clubs or whether it's going to meetings or whatever it is that for you.

is a place you build community, but to know that it is essential to have that community and to have it travel with you. One of the gifts of this time in which we live is this podcast is Builds Community. Shane, I don't know you, but I feel like I'm hearing you and I'm in, you know, I hear your journey. For us to be utilizing technology to share our journey and at times when we can.

Bishop DeDe (22:51.212)

to find people we can be with in the ways that are available to us. But I want to affirm you asking the question and reaching out gives us all an opportunity to think, how am I building community? And to see it as not extraneous to our lives, but essential. You need community. We are not built to live in isolation. We're built to be part of community.

Bishop DeDe (23:25.676)

Well, friends, we have talked about a lot of things and how we seek and serve Christ in all persons to be attentive to other persons. I invite you to listen to the people around you and hear what they're saying that's similar to your own journey. One of the things I probably should have mentioned was that when we listen and when we seek and serve Christ in other persons, we will find our commonality. We'll find our community.

because we'll realize that anxiety and fear, love and joy, these things are common to the human family. And so to seek and serve Christ in all persons is to engage with those shared values and shared things that we may have in common with people around us. So I'm gonna pass the baton to you. The best way to live out this bidding is to go and to live it out. So my prayer for you is that you will seek and serve Christ in all persons, that you will love your neighbor as yourself.

that you will share your vulnerabilities and your needs in appropriate ways with the people around you and foster conversation with others. So may you be blessed and be a blessing and until next time, let's continue to speak of our faith. Let's learn together and may you be well as you're doing that.