Speaking Of Our Calling

In this episode of Speaking of Faith, Bishop DeDe and Adam get real about “calling”—what it is, how we find it, and why it’s not always a straight path. They talk about living authentically, leaning on community, and staying faithful when things don’t go as planned. From the joy of saying “yes” to your gifts to the heartbreak when dreams shift, this conversation is an honest, hopeful look at how God calls us—sometimes in ways we never expected. Plus, they tackle a listener’s question about starting a second career in ordained ministry, proving that it’s never too late for a new chapter.

Highlights:

• What “calling” really means—and how to recognize yours
• Why authenticity and community make all the difference
• How to handle disappointment when plans change
• Faith and resilience in life’s unexpected turns
• A real-life question about second careers in ministry

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Speaking of Faith

00:55 Understanding Calling

02:17 The Nature of Calling

04:08 Authenticity in Calling

07:15 The Dynamic Nature of Calling

09:34 Responding to God's Call

13:14 Navigating the Work of Calling

17:54 Dealing with Failure in Calling

23:16 Listener Question: Second Careers in Ministry

AI Disclosure: To support our staff in their limited time, many of our episode summaries are first generated by AI and then edited by the Communications Director to accurately reflect and preview our podcast episodes.

Transcript

Bishop DeDe (00:02.535)
Hey friends, welcome to the podcast. Speaking of Faith, this is a podcast about how we learn to speak about those things that mean most to us. This is a place of learning. We come here not to answer all questions or to know all things, but rather to invite deeper conversations in a world that has forgotten how to speak about truth and our faith in ways that embolden and encourage one another.

especially perhaps when we disagree or don't understand that all of us learn together. My name is DeDe Duncan Probe. I am the Episcopal Bishop of Central New York. I'm joined by Adam Eichelberger, who is our Director of Communications. And our topic today is about calling, about who we're called to be and what does a calling mean in our lives. Often I think this is not understood well because we talk about calling.

Bishop DeDe (02:02.447)
as something outside of ourselves or an expectation or something that's imposed on us, rather than understanding that a calling comes from the deepest part of our being. I'm reminded of Psalm 139, where the Psalmist talks about, for it was you who formed me in my inward parts and you knit me together in my mother's womb. This understanding of our being. And I wanna highlight here that our being

We change all through our lives. And so I don't want in any way to sound as if we're talking about who you're born is who you will always be, but rather that there's a part of you, your internal self that knows the truth about you and is seeking to live that truth alive in the world. And then 1 Peter 2, 9, but you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, holy nation, God's own people.

in order that you may proclaim his excellence, the excellence of him who calls you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Calling, when we are called to something, it is a response to who God has created us to be, the truth of who we innately are. often I find a calling calls us beyond our comfort zone.

It is difficult in this world to be authentic at times. And I'm always inspired by our transgender siblings who help us understand that being who we are innately may be something that calls us to take, be vulnerable and be authentic and live our best lives to be whole inside of ourselves, to be holy as we talked about a few weeks ago, that a calling is not something we do.

It is something we be. And that is where I think there's a lot of confusion. When people talk about callings, often they're talking about, I be in this role in the church? Should I be a priest? Should I be a deacon? Should I, this sense of, should I go do that thing? Am I fit for that work? Instead of starting with, who has God called me to be innately?

Bishop DeDe (04:28.007)
What are the gifts and skills and talents that are in me? And what are the gifts and skills and talents that my community of faith sees in me? That mutuality of being. And I'm reminded, it's an odd example, and Adam will laugh at this, but I think one of the best places in movie history that I know about in my limited viewing is in Sister Act. And I think it's Sister Act 2, actually.

Adam Eichelberger (04:54.638)
Mm.

Bishop DeDe (04:57.233)
where the character played by Whoopi Goldberg is talking to Lauren Hill. my goodness, Lauren Hill. That's a whole nother podcast about music. But anyway, she's talking to a young Lauryn Hill in the movie and she says to her, if you wake up in the morning and all you can think about is singing, then you're a singer girl. And that's the line from the movie.

Adam Eichelberger (05:02.84)
Hmm.

Bishop DeDe (05:21.423)
Our calling is like that. If we wake up in the morning and the thing that's really on our heart or mind are people who are oppressed or harmed or who are suffering, the outcasts and the folks that need our support, then we have a calling to justice. We have a calling that may be diagonal to be a deacon in the church. That's the deacons reaching out.

If we wake up in the morning and we feel called to pray for someone, if it's, be with this person, Lord, or if another person comes to us to be people of prayer, that is a calling. And it naturally comes out of us. It's who we authentically are. It isn't something we put on like a shirt or a robe. It isn't something we aspire to or assume. It is something that we be attentive to. I'm always reminded, there was a wonderful parishioner, one of my parishes.

She was older, she had Alzheimer's, but early in her life she had realized she was called to be a person of prayer for others, an intercessor. So even when she had Alzheimer's and couldn't remember her name or other things, if she heard someone talk about feeling ill or not feeling well, she would automatically start saying, God, help people who are sick. And sometimes it would just be one sentence.

But you could see that calling was still resonant in her. She was still had that sense of who she was called to be in this world, how she was called to be in this world. So for you listener and for all of us, as we think about God's calling in us to take time to discern and pray about and push back all the artifices of power, prestige, or what we wish we were like, or if we were taller, stronger, if we were smarter, faster.

who we wish we were like, to rather appreciate that God has created you with love and joy as you are, that your giftedness is in your being, and that you are enough because God has made it so, that you are created by God out of love, that the redemption of Jesus Christ is for you, and that your calling is to be who you authentically are.

Bishop DeDe (07:46.501)
and to allow yourself to be transformed by the Holy Spirit in you. That who you are today is not who you will be tomorrow because God is always at work, always co-creating, always changing, always moving us. And so a calling is not a static event. If we were called to do something 10 years ago, we may or may not be called to do that thing today. Every morning we wake up to listen to our calling.

And I remember being a priest in my office one day and I had an agenda laid out. I mean, I had a very full day planned of work. I was going to do, you know, A, B, C, and D on my agenda. And into my office walked a parishioner who was known to like to talk. He was a big talker. He spoke of his faith. He spoke a lot. And he came in and I remember inwardly thinking, no.

I have an agenda. have things I'm supposed to do today. And if I had said to you, I would have said, I have things I'm already called to do. And he sat down and started talking about the major league baseball team and talked about the high school baseball team. And the whole time I'm thinking he's getting in my way. I have things that I'm called to do today and this isn't it. And then all of sudden he said, and, but I wanted to come by and tell you that I've been diagnosed with cancer.

And I'm worried about my wife and I wanted to talk with you about what help there is and how to navigate this time. And I suddenly realized he was my calling for the day. That agenda I'd laid out so carefully that what God really needed me to be doing was something different. And so I had to do something that we all have to do when we feel called is to repent of something. I think inherent in every calling is repentance.

some way we need to change our mind about who we believe ourselves to be, what we believe to be possible, what can happen or cannot happen. A calling to be ourselves, it automatically means we're gonna take up space we're not used to taking up. It may mean that we have to speak words we've always been afraid to say. God loves me, God's calling me to do a thing. Or to call someone or to face a fear.

Bishop DeDe (10:14.397)
to know that God is pushing us a bit out of our comfort zone to take a holy risk within the confines of our faith. So for you, dear listeners, I'm talking about this. What is alive for you in this? What is that thing that you've always thought that you might be called to? And let me finish with this in my part, and then I'll open it up for Adam to ask questions and for us to talk in a bigger way. One of the things that happens a lot when you're a

a priest or a bishop or a person, I think, is people come up to you and say, you know what you should do? You know what you should be doing? And when I was a younger priest, I would get kind of annoyed because always their answer was you need to do something different than what you're doing. But I finally learned to say, well, no, what, what do you think I should be doing? Well, how would I do that? Well, what would that look like? Well, who would we get to help us with this?

Well, how might we pursue that? Well, how would we pay for that? What could we do about that? Because often that part of us that's looking out saying, you know, somebody needs to go fix that. We can see it because we're called to do it. We can see it because we're called to be it. And so often when someone, you'll hear someone say, you know what they ought to do is they ought to have somebody who's going to welcome people when they come to the church. And to say to that person,

Well, how would you like to be involved in doing that? What would that look like? How might we build that up? That's a great idea. Let's see what the Holy Spirit is doing here. Sometimes when we investigate it, it may be that it's a nice idea, but it's not time yet, or it's time in a different way. But it may be that when we give voice to something and say, this should be done, to then say, and since I can see that, how am I called to be part of it happening?

How is this deep desire in my heart actually God's calling for me being lived out? How am I being invited into a new way of being as a child called by God? So Adam, I've said a whole bunch about calling. I could go on a lot longer, I can assure you, but I'm wondering what is alive for you in this and what questions may come to your mind.

Adam Eichelberger (12:35.661)
Yeah, so for me, I think first and foremost, one of the ways that I feel like I really have experienced like a calling from God to something in my life is as I was growing older, I really knew deep in my heart that I wanted to have a family. I wanted to be a person who had a family. I wanted to be a spouse. I wanted to be a parent. And...

Bishop DeDe (12:45.544)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (13:03.403)
I really had to do some work with that because especially somebody who grew up in the church for so long, I assumed that my calling was, okay, like you're supposed to do ministry, like you're supposed to be in ministry. And I'm not saying that those things aren't callings, but I think that maybe sometimes I'm going to speak for myself, listener, if you're anything like me, sometimes my, my scope or my view of what calling looks like is really narrow because I feel like it has to fit into these like categories. And I guess my

My question for you, Bishop, is when we feel like we have a calling for something, whether it's in something like ministry or wherever it is in our lives, what does that work look like? Because I think that there's two things and we're going to have another conversation about stuff related to calling. But like when we feel that call, what does that work look like? Should it look like, or what are your thoughts on what that work should look like in our own lives?

as we are listening to what God is saying, because inevitably the calling comes from God, so we're listening. So what does that work look like for us?

Bishop DeDe (14:10.705)
It's a great question because the first thing to recognize is often a calling is scary. We'll feel a calling or a feeling, a nudge inside of us and we'll think, I can't do that. And God's right there. If we are attentive, we'll understand that God is not saying we're going to do this on our own. God is calling us to allow ourselves to have the faith to be vulnerable.

So first, when we feel that nudge of a calling is to reach out and to seek in community a friend and say, could you pray with me about this? Could I talk to you about this? I just had this inclination and it's just crazy, but I just, it doesn't go away. And I think a lot of times a calling, we tend to think of calling as wanted.

But when you look at Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, you also know that sometimes a calling is something we struggle with mindily. It's something that really needs a lot of prayer and that drives us to prayer and that desires community. You see Jesus saying, why couldn't you stay awake with me? Seeking community with it. So to go to a trusted friend or a mentor and say, I feel called to this. Can we pray about it? And then.

Adam Eichelberger (15:15.617)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (15:37.011)
to take the next step and go to either a priest, a pastor, someone who knows something about what it is we feel called to do, because again, as you said, a lot of times people think a calling is only to the priest, to the deacon, to be a bishop. It's like to a role in the church. But really, our calling is to be the people of God as we are. And so sometimes that calling may be to

direct acquire or be part of the altar guild or, or go out and help feed people at the local soup kitchen. And so these callings, the next step is to talk with someone and seek community with it. And then to be curious about it, to be investigative, you know, to, so what does it mean to work at the food pantry? How is it, you know, the rotations and

And then, and then to take a friend with us to the calling and not to feel like, this is, I'm going to do this and I'm going to go do a thing, but rather to say, God's calling me to community and to live out my faith in this way and to be myself is to be open to doing this in community. And as we began to gather information, as we began to learn, as we began to talk with people about it, and especially

to always, always, always start with prayer and a deep sense of listening to God. this a right next thing for me? Is this a calling from you? And to remove some of the distractions is really important also. I have yet in my life to be called to something where I had enough money and enough time for it. just, those times where the nudge will come, the lightning will strike and it's like, I feel a sense of,

it's like, but how would I do that? And the answer is you would do it by praying and allowing God to open the doors for you and to close the doors and to pray that if this is in the right direction, Lord, close the door. If this is, you if I need to be attentive to the movement of the spirit. And then when we feel afraid or we feel anxious to pray with God and look back in our lives and see the path that we've come.

Bishop DeDe (18:02.823)
that at times God has shown up for us, bidden or unbidden, and we may or may not have recognized it, but some of those no's, when people have told us, no, this isn't your calling, that is necessary to find the place where we are called. And sometimes the answer is no, or sometimes the answer is a little bit to the left. And our openness to being, to trust God that when we are called to something,

and find our way and walk that journey, God's right with us. We'll not let our stumble as the passage would say, and that God will guide us to the right space if we're open, not to getting what we want or being right, but to seeking God and finding God. That what we're seeking is not our own power, assertion, or priority, but rather God's call for us.

Adam Eichelberger (18:58.805)
That's a really good reminder for me and we I wanted to ask this one and we do have one listener who thank you so much for writing in and sending us your questions and your comments. I want to get to that in a second, but this kind of prompted something in me and it has to do with the idea of failure when it comes to our calling because I know for me personally as somebody who grew up in the Roman Catholic Church, there was a period in my life, even though I felt.

Bishop DeDe (19:06.917)
Okay.

Bishop DeDe (19:17.838)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (19:26.895)
this particularly strong calling to be a husband and a father, that I felt a very strong, what I believe is very strong calling to the priesthood. And now looking back on that through the rear view mirror, Heightside being 2020, mean, thank God I didn't pursue that option, which sounds horrible, but like this life that God had intended for me, I would have been shoehorning, is that the word shoe? Like pushing myself into something that

Bishop DeDe (19:29.917)
Bye.

Bishop DeDe (19:36.339)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (19:52.775)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (19:55.521)
I wasn't necessarily made for. So I guess the next question before we get to our listener question is like, how do we deal with a sense of failure that comes along with, well, I think that this is the thing that God is calling me to and then I get met with no, get, or, you know, like these doors are closed and it's becoming more more apparent that this wasn't the call. What do we do with those feelings or how do we deal with that? Because I feel like that could be kind of devastating to someone.

Bishop DeDe (19:57.799)
Right.

Bishop DeDe (20:09.714)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (20:25.325)
and it can be very devastating, you because there's a feeling of the failure. If we're seeking to hear the voice of God, there's no such thing as failure. It means that isn't the right path. And so we feel the feelings and we allow ourselves to feel whatever disappointment there may be. But then we're also remind ourselves and surround ourselves with people who can help us recognize.

Thank, like you say, thank goodness I didn't go that way because it wouldn't have been right for me and it wouldn't have been right for the church. The answer, and this I really say a lot to volunteers in the church. If I ask someone, would you like to help be an usher or something of that nature? The worst thing a person can do is to say, okay, sure, because they've been asked. And since somebody asks them, then they're supposed to say yes.

because what happens is they get into the role, it's not really a good fit for them, they kind of resent it, then they're kind of crabby about it, and then they're not very warm and welcoming as an usher. The helpful thing is if somebody prays about it says, you know, I really appreciate you asking me, but I just don't think that is the right calling for me. Because I really feel excited what, one thing about a calling,

is along with maybe the fear of the trepidation is a real sense of a surge of just excitement. Like, really? That would be so much fun or that would be exciting. Or I love the challenge of that, or I love the opportunity to be able to speak words and just feel the privilege of call. That there's a real privilege about it, not in the power oppression sense. I'm talking about the honor.

of knowing that God has created you for a purpose. And when you're living your best purpose, the honor of that, the delight in being able to do that and the privilege of living in a place where it's safe enough and there's the opportunity to be able to live that calling. So I think that it's really important for all of us to recognize that there's no such thing as failure. There's only, well, that wasn't right or

Bishop DeDe (22:42.169)
And to be aware that there are times when the failure isn't because we're not willing or God isn't calling, but because people aren't ready to hear that call yet. I think we recently just celebrated the 50th anniversary of Betty Bones Sheese's celebration of a Eucharist, the first woman to celebrate a Eucharist in the Diocese of Central New York. For many centuries, women did not have access to fulfill their calling in the church.

That is still true today in certain denominations. Women are not allowed to fulfill their call to ordained ministry. Not because they're not called, not because God isn't at work, but because people are not aware or willing to accept or receive the calling of women in that particular place. Every time I'm behind an altar,

I am aware of the privilege of that space because I have been in a place and at a time when I was allowed to fulfill my call by God. And so sometimes we also have to recognize that if we're not called to something, it may not be because we aren't called to it, it may not be because it's just, there are times when the world is the world and we grieve that with God and we sorrow over it and then we know that God has never daunted or

held back, God's love is new every morning, and so there's new callings, there's new opportunities, and all of our eggs, as it were, to use that metaphor, are not in one basket. We may have felt really called to something, maybe it'll end up working on a different way because we'll exercise that calling in new ways. I have known so many women and LGBTQ plus AI persons

who exercised their callings in new and creative ways until the church they belonged to was willing to understand their calling by God, to open their doors and say, God is calling diversity that we didn't even realize. And so our acceptance of God's call, our acceptance in one another of God's call allows us all to become who we are created to be in God.

Adam Eichelberger (25:02.029)
That's really good because I think this kind of as we're landing the plane here really sets up a great discussion we can have. Our, our listener question for this week comes from a listener named Jay from a part of your sort of neck of the woods Bishop from Santa Monica, California. So welcome Jay to the podcast. so Jay, had some stuff that they wanted to share with us. Jay, is a retiree. Jay is 67 and

Bishop DeDe (25:20.509)
Hey, Jay.

Adam Eichelberger (25:31.308)
shared that Jay doesn't have a lot of experience working within the church, actually came to the Episcopal Church about 15-ish years ago, loves their parish, but even as a retiree is saying that they feel more and more like they could do more in the church and feels like they maybe even have a call to ordained ministry. So Jay has a question, and I understand Bishop that maybe some of this answer would be more.

context, more context specific for where Jay lives, but in kind of a broader sense, Jay wants to know, is there a place for people like Jay who are older and looking at this as like a second, I guess we call it a career in ordained ministry in the Episcopal Church? Bishop, your thoughts.

Bishop DeDe (26:00.924)
I know.

Bishop DeDe (26:12.185)
huh.

Bishop DeDe (26:17.607)
First of all, Jay, such a great question and welcome and so wonderful. What a wonderful example that God is always calling us no matter our age or experience or all the things that we're always growing and developing in new ways. Within the Episcopal Church, there are some limitations based on age and then your bishop. And so I can't answer the question for your bishop at what their viewpoint is of this. I can say that

One of the things about ordained ministry is that our calling to live the gospel of Jesus is the calling. We are called to proclaim Jesus in the ways that we can, to serve others and to love our neighbors and to live out the gospel in life-giving ways. How we do that, the roles we play may change, but the calling itself remains the same. Teaching Bible study, being a lay, a Eucharistic minister.

supporting homeless shelter, reaching out to people, serving others, even speaking, being a lay preacher. These are all options that are available to all people of faith in the Episcopal Church. And so those are all ways of serving that are not necessarily limited by age or, and they're definitely second career friendly because you have so much wisdom to share.

Jay and other listeners who have had, had their career to share in new ways. ordained ministry is, would be something to have a conversation with your priest and with your Bishop about. And I don't know what's available and what your situation is, but I can say that those things you're feeling called to do are things you can do. That you can be part of, living your faith in real and substantive ways.

and maybe to not allow yourself to get too caught in roles and employment and vocation, to really open up the doors a bit on being a person of faith is a being. And back to the top of this conversation, this is about being who God has called you to be. We have many second career priests, many second career deacons, and even bishops.

Bishop DeDe (28:41.543)
But for you in your own particularity to know that your call to be who you are and in the church and in the Episcopal Church especially, the laity are understood to be ministers of the church, to be the people who are feeding and teaching and helping. So I encourage you to live out your call, work with your church and with your bishop and see in terms of ordained ministry, but maybe don't look at that as the only way.

to really validate that you are called to serve Jay in the ways that you're called. So what a great conversation today. I think we could, we can clearly talk about this a lot more. Next podcast, we're going to talk about the discernment about how we take a sense of calling forward. So for Jay and for all of you out there who are really considering, is this a calling or not? We'll talk about some more about that.

and help all of us to consider how God is calling us to be and what that means that we do. You are beloved by God. You have been created by a love, the love of God and your calling, your calling is to be and embody that to this hurting world. So may you be blessed and be a blessing. And I now pass the baton to you. Go and speak about these things with someone and until next time.

will continue to speak our faith. Take good care.