What Even Is Hope?

Summary

In this episode of Speaking of Faith, Bishop DeDe and Adam get into what is means to hope. They explore the significance of hope in the context of faith, its grounding in scripture, and its relevance in personal struggles. The conversation emphasizes the importance of community and the challenges faced in a complex world. Through engaging discussions and listener questions, they encourage a deeper understanding of hope as a vital aspect of spiritual life.

Takeaways

• Hope is not wishful thinking; it is a belief in the possibility of achieving the highest good.
• Faith and hope are interconnected; our faith feeds into our hope.
• Hope is essential for healing and living a purposeful life.
• Our hope should be grounded in God's love and justice.
• Living out our faith means treating others with love and respect.
• Christianity is about a relationship with God and others, not just beliefs.
• We must navigate the complexities of faith in a world that often misrepresents it.
• Hope is the evidence of things not seen, guiding us in our daily lives.
• We are all called to be agents of healing and grace in the world.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Faith Conversations

01:20 Exploring the Role of Hope in Faith

04:54 Scriptural Foundations of Hope

08:48 Hope and Mental Health

11:16 Engaging with Questions on Hope

13:35 Living Out Christian Faith in Society

19:02 Communicating Faith Without Being a Jerk

AI Disclosure: To support our staff in their limited time, many of our episode summaries are first generated by AI and then edited by the Communications Director to accurately reflect and preview our podcast episodes.

Transcript

Bishop DeDe (00:01.56)
Hey friends, welcome to the podcast, Speaking of Faith. This podcast is about learning to use our words, to talk about what's most important to us, and to share that conversation with other people, to learn how to talk about our faith in ways that are meaningful not only for us, but for other people, and how to speak of our faith. My name is DeDe Duncan-Probe. I am the Episcopal Bishop of Central New York.

I am joined by Adam Eichelberger, who is our Director of Communications. This Diocese of Central New York is from the Canadian border to the Pennsylvania border, Utica to Elmira, and all the beautiful people and places in between. And so today we're going to be speaking about our faith. Last week's podcast, we talked about what is faith. After all this time of speaking about it, what is it that we're actually trying to articulate?

Today's podcast, we're gonna take hope. You can kinda guess what next week's podcast is, but we won't talk about that now. Keep that a secret. But we're gonna talk about hope today. And in our faith, what role does hope play in our faith? How does it relate to our faith? And again, this podcast is not meant to be the harbinger of all knowledge. I'm not here to answer all questions, but to hear, to open up the conversation.

so that we can speak about these things. Often when we speak about faith, we get really caught up in trying to get it right, trying to prove what we know. And as we talked about last week, when it comes to the issues of faith, that's not really possible. Not possible for the lay person, for the scholar, for anyone in between, that knowing about God, talking about God,

Is tantamount to Hamlet trying to describe Shakespeare or Romeo or Juliet. If you want to pick a different character, we are trying to talk about something that's a little bit beyond us, but also very personal to us, something within us that's also outside of us. And so that takes some opportunities to articulate now about hope. One of the people that I kind of go to almost immediately when I'm thinking about, issues of.

Bishop DeDe (02:20.044)
of hope and talking about hope in faith. It's a little bit in the nerdy category, but I really think Immanuel Kant comes to my mind pretty readily. Cause in his philosophy, hope is not merely a kind of wishful thinking or a passivity of gosh, I hope that happens. you know, if hope, I hope the, you know, my team sports team wins or, or this happens tomorrow.

but rather is born out of a really rational attitude. Hope is a way of being, of believing, an attitude directed toward the possibility of achieving the highest good. The hope is this kind of plumb line that aligns our life with a belief in the possibility that things can either be better or that in our belief,

that we are called by God, that God loves us, and that there is this relationship with the universe, that we love God with all that we are, our heart, mind, soul, strength, and life, and love our neighbor as ourself, therein lies our hope. And for Immanuel Kant, hope is not just a personal desire, but it really is grounded in moral law requiring belief in God and immortality.

and the possibility of a moral world. When you think about your conversations around hope, and you think about how you might normally talk about hope, we often talk about hope as it is kind of a fancy or a feeling to quote, to shift to another genre of English literature. But rather hope is that grounded belief that really undergirds all of our faith.

It's essential if we cannot hope for things not seen. And that passage of scripture, that hope is the evidence of things not seen. If we don't have that fundamental hope of God, then we don't have anything that sort of pulls us along to believe in, to be congruent to. And in a minute, I am gonna ask you, Adam, to read just that first, the two verses there of scripture.

Bishop DeDe (04:47.35)
When we don't have hope, then we are hopeless, which means we're purposeless, which really feeds into everything. And so if you think of hope rather than wishful thinking, more like I believe that studying allows me to learn. And when I learn, I'll be more capable and able to do a job or a function as a person. That belief in God, that hope is so essential to our healing.

It is not frivolous, it's actually a core aspect of faith. And so Adam, would you read that passage of scripture for us?

Adam Eichelberger (05:26.06)
Yeah, so we go back to the book of Hebrews like we started in last time and we're starting in chapter 11 and verse one and this is in the NRSV. We've talked about this before on the podcast. We prefer the NRSV when we're doing this, but it says now faith is the assurance of things hoped for the conviction of things not seen indeed by faith. Our ancestors received approval by faith. We understand

that the worlds were prepared by the word of God so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible.

Bishop DeDe (06:04.878)
That's right. And so thank you very much. And so that passage of scripture from Hebrews and this understanding that the word of God, I find it very powerful when I think of Genesis and creation. I think of God speaking the world into being this living expression of God is creation is a living aspect of God's gift to us of life. And so there are hope of things not seen that

God is able to create out of nothing the tabula rasa, the creation ex nihilo, that we are created for good things. Now, I will narrow myself in because I really, I mentioned tabula rasa, I really wanna hang a left, but I'm not going to do that. We'll save that for another podcast. But we're gonna stay here with creation ex nihilo out of nothing that God created, speaking it into being.

And in our own lives, when you think of hope in your life, and when we're talking about our fate, and we think about our hope for tomorrow, well, right now, there is not, we don't know what tomorrow brings, and we think we do, but we really don't. We're always creating out of our hopefulness. And so when we're creating out of our hopefulness, it means we're believing in something. To love another person is to hope.

that that connection can be there, that we can have relationship. And again, I wanna stay away from things like wishful thinking or fancifulness that we're wanting someone to love us who maybe doesn't, or we're talking about something that's outside of what is happening in our lives. I wonder if we wanna ground this in the specificity of our lives, that our hope is how we take the next step.

And if listener, you're someone that has struggled with depression or anxiety issues, these are real ontological things. want to, I want to make sure that in this podcast, we recognize mental health is really important and essential to our faith. And a part of being able to speak our faith is to be healthy. So when we find ourselves depressed or, or feeling anxiety, that is, that is an organic nature that we seek help.

Bishop DeDe (08:28.462)
that we get the help we need from a counselor, from medication, or the things that will help our body function best, because that hopefulness is so essential for the fullness of our living. And sometimes these health issues can get in our way. So that's just a little sidebar. I want to make sure I mention that, because when we're talking about hope, it can feel a bit shaming if we talk about it in a way like, why am I not feeling hopeful? Why am I not feeling good?

And it may be because there's a real reason that needs to be addressed. And so we don't want to shame anyone with hopefulness. But hope, when we think about it, is our real belief, that certainty that God is at work in us and around us, that we come from a place and are going to a place. And so we put our hope in the Lord and that evidence of things not seen, we can't see it right now.

but we believe it. We can't see and touch that God is at work in the world about us, but we believe it by faith. And we believe that God is calling us to be at work in this world. So in our conversations, when we're talking about hope with other people, how do we talk about it? And when someone says, boy, I hope that the weather's better tomorrow, that's fine. That kind of hope, we can understand the temporality of that.

But to say, you know, my hope really is in God's mercy and justice. My life is grounded in an understanding that God is love, that God is change, that God is creation, and that God is at work in me, that I've been created for goodness. And when I am living into that expression of goodness, my hope in God is that I will meet God in that.

And so that surety of belief and that groundedness. So as we talk about people, talk with others around us about hope, that we're inviting conversations about, what do we believe? What do we put our hope in? Is our hope in our financial stability? Is our hope in a temporal situation that could change but is today a certain way?

Bishop DeDe (10:51.082)
Or is our hope in something larger than our limited existence as a human? Is our hope in something greater than what is happening in this moment? For those of us who are at work, working with social justice and inclusivity and honoring the dignity of others, to know that our hope grounded in God's good creation is that when we act as if we know God, we will experience

And so as we talk about hope and in this, it's a very, find hope, faith, and love to be difficult things to talk about because they're so personal, they're in us, they're part of our faith, and yet they're intangible. They're something that we know by faith, but something we can't necessarily touch because again, it's something the evidence is seen, but we can't, but it's not tangible to us.

I've talked a lot about hope in a sort of introductory way. Adam, do we have questions for people or do you listen to this? What questions even come up for you or thoughts about hope?

Adam Eichelberger (12:04.812)
Yeah, for me, when I think about hope, it makes me mindful of like when I'm at church on Sundays, right? And we talk about things like the resurrection. The resurrection in and of itself is a source for hope for me because it kind of speaks to this very human need that in, know that I experienced it all the time. I'm sure maybe listeners, you experienced it all the time that there is something more that

Bishop DeDe (12:16.738)
Right.

Adam Eichelberger (12:33.388)
that this very finite blip that I get to take up in the history of time is not the end. There's a great song by some musicians that I love. It's a husband and wife duo. They used to go by the title Gungor. And they have this song that says this, it's just a meditative song that talks about, this is not the end for us. This kind of very reflective look. And to say, you every time when I'm at church, you know, we say, Christ has died, Christ has risen.

Bishop DeDe (12:54.67)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (13:02.382)
Christ will come again and that this is kind of like the heart of our hope, right? God's broken the power of death. So it's not just wishful thinking. It's a confidence and that's really good for me. And I really like Bishop that you talked about. This isn't wishful thinking, know, when, especially when we look back at last week, you know, we talk about faith and how hard that can be to articulate. And this is, I think equally difficult, but it's good for me to remember like

Bishop DeDe (13:18.542)
Mm-mm.

Bishop DeDe (13:27.916)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (13:30.414)
You call this back to that scripture from Hebrews that one thing kind of feeds into the other that our faith feeds into this hope that we have. So these are really good things for me to think about as I'm living out my life and learning how to speak about my faith. I did have, we do have two questions that did come in after last week. So shout out to you listeners for coming back in and engaging with us in the conversation. And remember your feedback, your thoughts, your questions are always welcome. You can go.

Bishop DeDe (13:35.426)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (13:50.286)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (14:00.344)
to our website cnyepiscopal.org and you can click on the podcast button for Bishop's podcast and submit a question right there. The first one comes from a listener named John and John in light of last week's conversation and I think it kind of plays into this one about hope too asks this Bishop, what does a Christian faith look like in our country where so many claim to be and he uses quotes so I will Christian.

Somebody who claimed to be Christian seemed to not want to do what Jesus asks of us.

Bishop DeDe (14:31.408)
yeah, it's really interesting, John, and thank you for that. And yes, this is how we keep the conversation going listeners, as we talk about this, we're speaking of our faith. I think that's a really, really important question, and I wish I had more of an answer. I think all of us together have to answer. You know, I don't understand it. Jesus is very clear. There's a lot of things in scripture that aren't as clear.

But the things that Jesus is very clear about is how we treat our neighbor, how we offer a cup of cold water, how we seek to serve others, how we, you know, if they ask for your cloak, them your, you know, it's just the whole gospel. Jesus over and over and over says how we live matters, that we're going to do these things if we love Jesus. And so when someone claims to know Jesus, but then hates their neighbor,

I think of 1 John, how can you say you love God who you haven't seen when you can't love the person who's next to you that you have? That it comes down to our faith being more than words or aspiration or a mindset or some sort of social construct, but rather is a real dedicated relationship with God and with one another and with ourselves. And so I think that we know they're Christians by their love that the song or the verses

Really we can know if someone believes in Jesus or not by how they treat other people. And whether it's a church or a person or no matter what the institution may be, if our care for one another is not in line with the gospel of Jesus Christ, then that's an issue of faith and formation. And it's an issue of us knowing and recognizing that we are beholden to Jesus, beholden to God.

to act in these ways and when we don't, then we repent, we change our mind, we turn around and we go back and we do differently. And if I am in a group or in a situation where people think that Jesus is okay with someone being dehumanized, whether it's LBGTQ +, a refugee, an immigrant, the elderly person down the street, the person who lives on Medicare, that is not in keeping with faith and there's no

Bishop DeDe (16:59.284)
soundbite, no political dancing around that, we either do what Jesus says or we do not. And so, and that's a hard one because it convicts all of us. There are times when we all want to be greedy. But I think the way that we understand that, John, is to understand that Jesus calls us to a way of life. And sometimes we fall short of that. We can get corrupted by the influences around us. And when we find ourself in that position,

We repent, we literally change our mind, turn back to the way of God and recognize these are the tenets of our faith. And then also to know that I think I should put this in here, we also think sometimes when we follow Jesus, everything's gonna be all right. Everyone's gonna be happy with us, we're gonna sing sunshine, dance in sunshine and all that. If people were upset with Jesus, and if society and the institution of the world was upset,

with Jesus, the Son of God, who is perfect in every way, calling people to this way of living. I cannot imagine that they're gonna be happy, always happy with us. Because that's just part of it is our human sinfulness, is we want to reject the perfection and love of God. Our human sinfulness is that we turn our face against God. And that's why we do need to change our mind and repent.

Adam Eichelberger (18:29.88)
Absolutely. Just hearing you say that, Bishop, reminded me about the words of Jesus. Remember, when they hate you, they hated me first.

Bishop DeDe (18:38.47)
Exactly. when they review, blessed are you when they curse you, blessed are you when they do to you exactly what they did to me. I want to stop.

Adam Eichelberger (18:47.118)
The other thing that, yeah.

Adam Eichelberger (18:53.452)
One of the things that kind of popped in my mind as we're talking about this, Bishop, because we talked a little bit about how we find hope in the resurrection. One of the things that came to my mind for me as an Episcopalian and as somebody who professes that particular faith in Jesus is that I'm constantly mindful that hope is an act of faithful resistance for me as an Episcopalian.

Bishop DeDe (18:56.183)
And

Bishop DeDe (19:18.36)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (19:20.654)
We were talking about Hebrews and the thing that popped in my mind was in Romans where Paul talks about Suffering produces endurance and endurance produces character and character produces hope and hope does not disappoint us It's a chance for us to trust in God's goodness Even when the world is kind of a mess You know like we can trust in how? Especially when the world kind of feels like it's a mess

Bishop DeDe (19:33.517)
Right.

Bishop DeDe (19:43.116)
Maybe especially when the world is a mess.

Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (19:48.138)
It gives us something to hope in. makes me mindful of the great John Lewis calling us to good trouble and that that is actually a source of hope that there is work to be done and we are called and invited into that work to be done. In this same vein about talking about hope, we got a question from a listener named Dana and Dana has a question about talking about their faith.

Bishop DeDe (19:55.98)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Bishop DeDe (20:12.451)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (20:16.671)
Kind of like we do on this podcast But she said how can I let people in my life know that I'm a Christian and not a jerk?

Bishop DeDe (20:27.182)
Dana, great question. I don't know. One, I think, you we all have to start off. I mean, really, I think we have to start with that, that we not be a jerk. mean, you know, that's, that's a really important aspect of it is that we actually have a charism that's not, you know, difficult. But I think also to say, you know, I think we can be honest in saying a lot of what is said,

Adam Eichelberger (20:32.654)
Hahaha

Bishop DeDe (20:56.158)
and is in the public sphere about who Christians are, what they believe and all these things does not actually apply to my faith. I think God creates us with dignity and joy. I think that LGBTQ plus persons are a gift and a blessing and are just beloved by God. I don't know how anyone ever came up with these ideas that are different than that.

But yet they have. And so in some ways it's to be verbal about being in contradistinction, to be self-defined by it, to say, know, I understand that Christians have been portrayed in this way, but that is not reflective of my actual faith and my community of faith. I think one of the challenges for us as people of faith is to recognize that Christianity, a belief in Jesus is not

individual and yet has been portrayed as being individualistic and that sometimes there are communities of people whose shared belief is not in line with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it can be challenging at times to say, well, you know, how do we, how do we parse that? Well, the same way we parse being in families where people are not perfect. Sometimes we accept the people in our families who

do and say things that they shouldn't do and say while we set boundaries for them, while we recognize our difference from them, while we choose a different path for ourselves. We're still part of something. So as Christians and as people of faith, to be clear about what it is we believe. That's which is why I think this podcast was important for me to do so that we can learn to speak different ways about Jesus.

If all we hear in the blogosphere are the hatefulness that's attributed to Jesus, that means those of us who read the gospel and see the love of Jesus need to speak up. We need to talk about it. We need to stand in contradistinction to what's being said and say, no, that isn't how I believe. I believe God rejoices in you.

Bishop DeDe (23:20.386)
with the refugee and the immigrant to recognize that throughout scripture, whether you talk about the Hebrew scriptures or what is sometimes called the Old Testament, the epistles, the prophets, the Psalms, the whole of the canon of the Bible, no matter what version you're referring to, that we are to welcome the refugee, we are to welcome the immigrant as if it's our own, and that we are to be about the dignity of other people.

that it matters to God what is happening around the world. And therefore, as people who love God, it matters to us. And so all of us have a part to play. And so how do we not be jerks? Well, to not be a jerk. And how do we share the love of Jesus to say, you know, I know this may not make sense to you, but I'd love to read scripture with you or have conversations. I'd love to show you where my faith comes from. I'd love to share my journey with you.

and tell you how I've come to believe in this way, but out of respect for the other person's journey and out of an invitation that all of us together can speak about our faith without the need to belittle, dehumanize, put down, segregate others, always with the invitation that all of us are called by God to healing and grace and mercy and restoration, that God loves us and redeems us.

and that we are all forgiven and the desire is to be whole. So dear listeners, keep the conversation going. I'm gonna pass the baton to you now and to be a partner in this conversation with us. Send in your questions, your comments, topics you'd like to learn to talk about, things that we can discuss together. And as we leave this time to be thinking about what hope means in your life. What are the things your

hoping for. What is the evidence in your life of things not yet seen? The ways in which you may already be experiencing the new life of God that is bubbling up for you in new ways. My prayer for you always is that you'll know that you're loved and beloved, that you'll be a blessing to this world and that you will be blessed. And may you hope in the Lord and know that God is with you. Take good care and we'll speak soon.