The Strength of Abiding in Love

Summary

In this episode, Bishop DeDe explores the complexities of faith, love, and community. She discusses the importance of abiding in God's love, the paradox of power and love, and how to navigate personal and community needs. The conversation also addresses listener questions about hell and salvation, emphasizing the significance of love and mutual relationships in overcoming fear and fostering a supportive community. We wrap up encouraging listeners to share their faith with others.

Takeaways

• Abiding in God's love is a lifelong work.
• True power is mastery over my own impulses.
• We are called to love our enemies.
• Living for Jesus is all we need to fear.
• God loves us, and so to have that confidence.
• We need to check ourselves before we wreck ourselves.
• It's about being part of a community.
• Love saves us from the hell of subjugation.
• We are not called to be fearful of hell.
• It's your turn to go and speak of your faith.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Faith Conversations
03:04 Abiding in Love: A Deeper Understanding
06:00 The Paradox of Power and Love
08:55 Navigating Personal and Community Needs
12:07 Questions from Listeners: Hell and Salvation
15:06 Personal Reflections and Wrap-Up 

AI Disclosure: To support our staff in their limited time, many of our episode summaries are first generated by AI and then edited by the Communications Director to accurately reflect and preview our podcast episodes.

Transcript

Bishop DeDe (00:07.591)
Hey friends, welcome to the podcast. We are so glad to be with you and to have this time to speak of our faith. My name is DeDe Duncan-Probe. I'm the Episcopal Bishop of Central New York. That's Canada to Pennsylvania, Utica to Elmira, and all the beautiful people and places in between. I am joined by Adam Eichelberger, and we are so glad to be back on YouTube with video. And for those of you listening,

with the audio, it is just a great joy for me to gather with you and for us to have this time to talk about speaking of faith. A lot of you know that years ago, there was a thing that went around, don't talk about politics, religion, or money, and that was a very successful campaign because one of the things we lost the ability to do apparently is to talk about religion, politics, or money.

without it becoming personal or objectifying. This podcast is an offering and an invitation to you and to all of us to speak of our faith, to talk about what is important to us and to align our lives with what we value most. And so for today's podcast, I really have been struck by a verse from scripture that I wanna share with you. the Gospel of John or the fourth gospel starting 15th chapter, starting at verse nine.

through 11 and then 13 through 14. I am gonna be reading from the NRSV, the New Revised Standard Version today. that will be a conversation for another time about biblical versions. But today this is where we are. So let me read this passage to you. As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love.

just as I have kept my father's commandments and abide in his love. This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. The gospel of the Lord. Now this gospel I've

Bishop DeDe (02:34.469)
was really struck by today because abiding in God's love, abiding in the love that Jesus is offering and commanding us to abide in is something that we may take for granted or not think about too much. We may say, abide in his love. But what does that really mean day to day in our lives? When we abide in our love, if we think about our homes, are our homes an abode of love? Is the space in our life filled with love?

Do we walk through this world offering ourselves to be loving and kind and forgiving? Or are we nurturing grudges or are comfortable with spite or revenge? You know, this world likes to tell us that greed is good, the revenge is sweet. You know, no one, you you have to get what you get and get in early and all that, that you want power over, that you don't submit to things, that whoever loves is the weakest.

And then here we are in our faith talking about love as strength. And when we think about Jesus Christ and think about God, eternal creator of all that is the planets, the stars and the heavens and all the creation. Well, that isn't really sound like weakness. And so our calling as people of faith to be about love can seem antithetical or really contrary to.

What we see as values in this world, the people who are quote unquote successful are those who have power over everyone around them. The people who dehumanize or are able to denigrate or that money buys you space. These things that in this world, this temporal world seem to be values that are placed. It can sound so weak and like you're trying to plan for failure.

to talk about being compassionate or especially the passages where Jesus talks about when you see, you know, giving a cup of cold water or if someone asks for your tunic to give them your cloak also, this being taken advantage of, being seen as less than and undesirable. And yet for those of us who have a faith, we know that those moments that can be miraculous even.

Bishop DeDe (05:01.679)
are born out of those places where we believe Jesus. And so the question of who we believe really is important for the cultivating of our life, the curating of our life. Do we believe the world that says that revenge is good or do we believe our faith that tells us forgiveness is sacred? Do we believe the world that tells us that greed and power over and taking away from others is not only acceptable but preferable?

Or do we believe Jesus saying, know, when you've done it to the least of these, you've actually done it to me, to the body of Jesus. And so in this time of Easter, as we're proclaiming resurrection and talking about resurrection, and as we speak about our faith, I think it's very important to question what we think we know and especially question what we think. Because often what happens,

is as contemporary people, we view what Jesus says as rooted in history. Well, that may have worked in the first century, but in 2025, this is how life is. Well, that may have worked for historical people, but as contemporary people, we know there's no such thing as right and wrong. Everything's kind of gray and sort of an option, that there's no real truth or falsity, that it's all optional.

And so it's very complex as contemporary people who may be postmodern to bring in that, that we may have a hard time understanding what does our faith mean and what about it do we believe to be true? Do we really believe that loving our neighbor as ourselves is a good idea or do we trust and believe that being judgmental and harsh is a way to get what we want?

so much of contemporary life seems to revolve around, well, I don't like it, or I want it, or I didn't want to do that, rather than a higher ideal of this is how I want my life to feel. This is what I want to align my life with. And I can say as a person who's been in the work of following Jesus for quite a few years now, I'm not gonna tell you how many, but it's a lot,

Bishop DeDe (07:29.905)
The alignment of my life with Jesus, everything good in my life has come from abiding in the love of Jesus. And the hardest parts of my life where I have felt broken relationships and the harder things, a lot of those have come when I have been selfishly motivated or where I have set aside my faith and decided I was going to align myself with this world, where I let money be more important than relationships or I let

of my dislike of someone get in the way of my ability to forgive myself and to forgive them. Abiding in Jesus's love is a lifelong work, an ongoing transformation of aligning how we live with what we profess to believe. And good news in the good news of the Bible, and it tells us right there that

The wisdom of God is foolishness to temporal humans. It even says it right in the book that there are times when living the way Jesus commands us can seem vulnerable and not what works in this world. And I want to make sure that I say that loving our neighbors, ourself, loving one another in a sacrificial way when Jesus talks about laying down our lives for others.

We're not talking about allowing others to treat us with disrespect. We're not talking about allowing others to abuse us or harm us. We're talking about a way in which we live that is sacrificial and invitational that all of us are invited to participate in. When we look at the passion of Jesus, we see Jesus lay down his life, not as a victim, but as someone who has the power and integrity to decide how he is going to lay.

his life down, the choice on the cross to look at the thieves beside him and say, I invite you this day to be with me in paradise. The knowledge that he is surrendering himself to the passion and laying his life down out of love for you and I, not in the history only, but in present day, that when we forgive and seek and allow ourselves to suffer for the well-being of another,

Bishop DeDe (09:55.433)
with integrity and dignity. We are following in the footsteps of our Lord. And we too, like in the passage, are friends of Jesus, that we are living the commandment of Jesus in real time. Now this is a complex issue for this podcast. And I will tell you, I could go on for a long time, but Adam, as you listen to this, what sort of questions or thoughts come to your mind or reflections on this?

Adam Eichelberger (10:23.797)
Well, what comes to my mind, Bishop, as I hear you talking about all this is a reminder that when Jesus calls us to not only follow what he commands us to, but then he actually calls us friends. It's a reminder to me that my life with Jesus is one big paradox. It's constantly seeming to contradict itself. It talks in the scripture about how like in your weakness, you find God is made strong. You know what I mean? There's strength.

Bishop DeDe (10:43.528)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (10:48.625)
is strength. That's right.

Adam Eichelberger (10:51.567)
that for me to truly love my neighbor, means to love my, it means to love my enemy as well. That when somebody strikes me on my left cheek, offer them my right, or maybe it's the other way around. I'm having a, I'm having a moment that I'm constantly called to change my perspective and not to get too much into Paul, but Paul tells us to put on a new mind, you know, like he tells us to renew our mind and change how we look at life. I am constantly reminded.

Bishop DeDe (10:57.415)
Right.

Bishop DeDe (11:01.511)
Right. Right.

Bishop DeDe (11:08.925)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (11:12.819)
That's right.

Adam Eichelberger (11:20.585)
that I need to look at things and see where I need to make changes that Jesus is calling me, inviting me to make a change. And that's the really hard thing for me about Jesus too. There's these commandments and I'm like, that's serious. But then he's also inviting me, which gives me the choice to do it. And so I'm constantly needing to be reminded of that.

Bishop DeDe (11:27.954)
Right.

Bishop DeDe (11:39.977)
Absolutely, because in this commandment is the understanding that he it says throughout the passage if if if That is a that's an invitation. It's if you live like I have lived Then you abide in my love. I'm inviting you to something that's greater more expansive bigger than you can know By abiding by acting as I have acted

And that paradox is right, because we think power is if I can control another person. But real power is mastery over my own impulses and myself. We look at power as who loves most is weakest. But to love someone who is in many ways perceived as unlovable, to be not defined by the moment, but to be defined by how we are in the moment, is true expansive eternal power.

It's a really interesting thing to be transformed by and to recognize that changing our mind, when you said change your mind, all I could think of, because we talk so much in this podcast, in Greek, changing our mind is repentance, which is not what most of us were taught about repentance. Repentance was sort of like know that you're bad and that you're bad and change that. But real repentance is to change our mind and say, you know what?

What feels right to me is to be resentful and hold grudges. But true freedom is to change my mind and say, I'm going to be free to forgive and let that go and not hold onto something that is poisoning my own soul. And so that paradox is such a great way to talk about it, as you've said, that we are called to be changed by doing what it first may feel very risky and at times may

be more like laying down dying to something because we are called to die to those things and take up the resurrection of Jesus the eternal nature of love that lasts forever

Adam Eichelberger (13:49.045)
Hmm. And that's, and that's also a good reminder to us that we, it's hard because we're not called to like take up arms and, be violent, but we're also not called to be a doormat. You know what I mean? And there's, there's a huge difference between being a doormat and being somebody who's in favor of peace or being, as the Bible talks about meek, you know, like meekness is not being bullied.

Bishop DeDe (13:58.578)
No. Yeah.

Bishop DeDe (14:03.645)
That's right.

Bishop DeDe (14:14.046)
Right.

No, and when you're mentioning the cloak or loving your enemy.

my goodness, talk about stepping out of like a drama triangle and saying, I'm gonna love my, I'm gonna be concerned for the wellbeing of my enemy, even if they're not concerned for their own wellbeing or the wellbeing of others. I have enough capacity to be kind and caring, regardless of what another person does, because I know Jesus and my capacity for love is eternal because Jesus in me is eternal.

Adam Eichelberger (14:34.677)
That's right.

Bishop DeDe (14:50.459)
It is incredible to see that power of not being conformed to this world, but to really be able to say to beyond it. And like with the cloak, you know, the only way people can take advantage of us is if we're trying to hold on to something. But if someone was like, can you give me, and you're like, yeah, can you, you know what? I'm just gonna give, because I don't need what I'm giving to you as much as I need to make sure you're cared for.

Adam Eichelberger (15:06.751)
Hmm.

Bishop DeDe (15:19.035)
And again, that doormat thing, there are times when we need to say no, because my giving to you is toxic. If I keep giving you money and giving you money and giving you money, I'm not being loving, because I'm actually infantilizing you by thinking you can't be responsible in your own right. If I keep giving when another, instead of holding someone else mutually accountable, then I'm part of a problem that isn't about holiness, it's about

codependency. But to truly love someone and to love our enemies is to seek the best for them and to not be able to be out given because we're compassionate for the other person in a healthy, non codependent, but mutually accountable way. Cause all of us, it's not like we're the only ones who are called to do this. Our enemy is also invited by Jesus if they want to abide in love and lay down.

their selfish greed. So all of us are invited to this work.

Adam Eichelberger (16:22.485)
That's really good. So I have some good news and some bad news for both you Bishop and you listeners. The good news is I've got a couple of questions from some of our listeners. We got kind of a special one at the end. So that's good. But I have bad news, which means I'm at the bottom of the barrel. So I'm going to ask you if you watch or listen to the podcast, if you go to our website, cnyepiscopal.org and hit the podcast button.

You'll see a link to Bishop Deedee's podcast, Speaking of Faith, and you can submit your questions or comments. My first one is from a listener named Donna. Donna says that I grew up in a church that talked a lot about hell and damnation. I don't know how much of that I believe in anymore, but I still worry about people I know, or even strangers going to hell. What do Episcopalians say about this and how can I get past all of this? And this is a little bit of good overlap for

Bishop DeDe (17:00.531)
Hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (17:16.201)
For the rest of us with Ken and Megan, Ken and Megan recently did a little bit of a deep dive into heaven and hell. But I think that Donna has a good question here worrying about people going to hell, people who aren't Christians going to hell. So Bishop Deedee, what do have to say to Donna about this?

Bishop DeDe (17:28.275)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (17:32.595)
Well, Donna, first of all, I really appreciate when, you know, your willingness to learn new things. It's hard when we've been taught something as onerous or frightening or terrifying even as, you know, going to hell and hell and damnation. We can be afraid to even ask the question. So there's a courage in that. And I want to acknowledge that. I also want to say that, you know, hell, we, one of the teachings for a long time was that hell was after you die.

But I think we can know that there is such a thing as hell in the present time. That some people live in a place that is horrific and terrifying. And so when we want people to be saved from hell, really, the converse of hell when we talk about heaven is, when we look at like the fruits of the spirit, I like to point to

Adam Eichelberger (18:07.804)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (18:30.589)
because love and power and self-control and these things create a heaven on earth that when we live in a space where we are valued and validated, where we can value and validate others, when we are people who exchange and are part of mutual relationships, that is salvation, that love saves us from the hell of...

subjugation and loneliness, oppression, violence, all these things. And so it's not just after we die, but present day. And so in the present day, if we feel the power of love and feel the salvific aspects of it, that is something that we carry with us through death. And if it is the charism of God, then I think we need not fear anything because in our baptismal covenant and when we're baptized,

for the, we're marked as Christ's own forever. That our salvation is in relationship with God. So to change that and the way we can do it in a way that we're not fooling ourselves or putting ourselves at risk for, you know, damn like change, you know, oh, we're gonna say, no one goes to hell after they die. And then we're have that fear to change it and say, you know, when I live, when I'm abiding in Jesus, when I'm abiding in God's love, I need fear no.

you know, nothing that neither the arrow that flies by day or by night, that when we are abiding in God's love, we abide with God in this life and whatever may come next. And our invitation to others and to ourselves is to have confidence in that, that God loves us. And so living for Jesus is all we need to be fear or fearful of is, is that we're abiding in love, that we love our enemies, that we do the things Jesus commands us to do.

Adam Eichelberger (20:25.845)
serves as a good reminder too for us. I think we were just talking about this the other day, Bishop, that the most common phrase that's used in Scripture is either do not be afraid or peace be with you. And it's a good reminder for us that we are not called to be fearful of hell. We're called like in, hey, good plug, go back and listen to when we talked about the armor of salvation. We talked about that in an earlier episode that

Bishop DeDe (20:38.909)
That's right.

Bishop DeDe (20:45.075)
Mm-mm.

Adam Eichelberger (20:54.109)
We are called to be strengthened by our assuredness in Christ that he gives us a sure foundation.

Bishop DeDe (20:58.375)
That's right. We can know that we are beloved and so to have that confidence. So what's the other question? And then I do encourage you listeners, if there are topics, especially that you're wanting to talk about, but you're not sure how to talk about, this is the place, bring the questions because we're all learning together. But yeah, what's the other question?

Adam Eichelberger (21:03.005)
Mm-hmm. Awesome.

Adam Eichelberger (21:18.801)
And, and on that note, when you submit a question to the podcast, it does ask your name. You don't have to put that in there. So if you have like a big topic that you want to talk about and you feel like you're going to get identified on the podcast, you can submit anonymously. So please feel free to ask whatever questions you want. So have two more. One from Jim. Jim asks, how can faith help navigate the tension between individual needs and the needs of the wider community?

Bishop DeDe (21:48.497)
Well, great question, Jim. And boy, this takes me right to Acts. And I'm thinking of Niasis and Sapphira. I mean, there's a whole thing. But I think the way that we do that is in community, that the needs of the individual are important to God. The needs of the community are important to God. You know, that we leave the 99 sheep to go after the one. And so that is important. And then also that it is not about a single person, but our faith is communal.

So it's, I'm gonna sound like an Episcopal bishop when I say it, it is a both and. That is something that is sacred in our tradition as Episcopalians is a both and. But God really cares for you. And I do wanna distinguish a little bit when we talk about need, contemporarily a lot of times when we talk about need, what we really mean is want. And so we sometimes have to check ourselves before we wreck ourselves to use the common, you know, way to say that.

Adam Eichelberger (22:22.719)
Mmm.

Adam Eichelberger (22:39.871)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (22:47.503)
we need to look at do I want this or do I really need it? And is there something that God's asking or in abiding with Jesus another way to find that in a community? So it is about being part of a community and recognizing the sacredness of individuals.

Adam Eichelberger (23:07.603)
really good. So our last one is from two special listeners and I asked them if they wanted to try and come on the podcast and ask the question but they were both very shy and they both had school. So AJ and Maggie had a question for you Bishop and here is their question. AJ started it off and said, for those of you who don't know AJ and Maggie are my kids. AJ and Maggie wanted to ask you AJ start off and said if you had a totally free day with no meetings or emails or and as AJ said

Bishop DeDe (23:17.513)
Love it.

Adam Eichelberger (23:36.553)
bishop-y things. How would you spend it? And Maggie wanted to know, and what would be on the playlist that you listened to during the day? I have a feeling I know maybe one part of the playlist, but go for it.

Bishop DeDe (23:48.421)
Well, that is so cool. And AJ and Maggie, you know that you're special to me. He has great kids. anyway, you know, AJ, when I have a free day, the things I love to do are a lot of them are outdoors. If it's winter, it's like snowshoeing. And lately it's been, you know, I went and played golf a couple of times. And so I've, I love being out in nature and feeling that connectedness with nature. So all things that have to do with, you know, being outside, going for walks.

Hikes, camping, nature, golf. And the playlist, Maggie, that is a very good one. Let's see. There would probably be a Beyonce song on there. There would also be some others. There's quite a few. I'm trying to think. Just yesterday, I was out walking and some of them with throwbacks. well, Stevie Wonder, Superstition is, I think,

Adam Eichelberger (24:29.171)
I knew it.

Adam Eichelberger (24:43.477)
Bishop DeDe (24:46.749)
They must have known in the studio when they started that riff at the very beginning, they had to know that was going to be a hit because that is just so classic and fantastic. then, deep, earth, wind and fire, best concert I ever went to was a couple of years ago over here in Syracuse earth, wind and fire was there with Santana fabulous concert, but earth, wind and fire just took literally took the roof off. was unbelievable. love earth, wind and fire.

Also like class, I like kind of all music, classical, even like, you know, country music. There's some, you know, fun country music songs that I like. so I like good music, big barbastard Sam fan. know, just all over the map, but earth, wind and fire. If I'm out playing golf, yeah, probably could be on the podcast or on the playlist with that one. Yep. Well, dear friends, it's so good to gather with you. Now it's your turn.

Adam Eichelberger (25:35.349)
You

Bishop DeDe (25:42.661)
It's your turn to go and speak of your faith with someone else that you love or know or meet at the store or wherever it may be to talk about what it means to you to abide in God's love, how this changes how you view yourself and others and how we do live as friends of Jesus in this life and in this space with confidence, knowing that God loves us, that God calls us and that God is speaking in us and through us.

May we use our words to proclaim love in this hurting world. May you be blessed and be a blessing. I look forward to seeing you next time and continuing the journey as we speak our faith.