What's Love Got To Do With It? - Loving Our Neighbor

Summary

In this episode of Speaking of Faith, Bishop DeDe and Adam explore the profound and often complex theme of loving our neighbor. They discuss the true nature of love, emphasizing that it is not merely a feeling but a decision and discipline that requires intentionality and practice. The conversation delves into the challenges of loving those who may be different from us, the importance of curiosity and acceptance, and how to navigate disagreements in close relationships. Ultimately, they highlight the necessity of compassion, humility, and the willingness to try again in our efforts to love others.

Takeaways

• Love is a decision we make every day.
• Loving our neighbor is a complex reality.
• Curiosity helps us to love our neighbors better.
• We often project our feelings about ourselves onto others.
• Love is not just a feeling; it is a discipline.
• Compassion for ourselves is essential to loving others.
• Navigating differences requires humility and acceptance.
• Intentionality is key in our daily interactions.
• Sometimes, saying no is the most loving action.
• We must be patient with ourselves in our journey of love.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Loving Our Neighbor
02:49 The Complexity of Love
06:11 Intentionality in Love
09:06 Curiosity and Acceptance in Neighborly Love
11:59 Navigating Differences in Relationships
15:06 Final Thoughts on Love and Compassion

AI Disclosure: To support our staff in their limited time, many of our episode summaries are first generated by AI and then edited by the Communications Director to accurately reflect and preview our podcast episodes.

Transcript

Bishop DeDe (00:02.582)
Welcome friends to the podcast, Speaking of Faith, talking about what matters most in our lives, what is deep and meaningful to us, and learning to use our words about faith. Sometimes it is so hard to talk about what faith is and how it relates to our life and to just speak about it. My name is DeDe Duncan-Probe. I am the Episcopal Bishop of Central New York. I'm joined by Adam Eichelberger. He is our Director of Communications.

And our topic today is loving our neighbor. Now, before you think, this is simple, I know all about this. I think we all wrestle with what love truly is. I mean, we have songs, you know, for generations going back to Sinatra about what true love truly is. But I think also when Jesus says to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourself, that all the law

all the prophets depend on this, I think it deserves an opportunity for us to speak about it, to think about it, to take time for it. Especially in this time, in this time when fires are burning in Los Angeles and some are using this as an opportunity for schadenfreude or to put down others or to just be glad they're not part of that mess, othering.

one another is something that is happening a lot. Our country is obviously divided along partisan lines, but also conversations are being had about how people are to be treated or not treated. And there's just a whole lot happening right now that a conversation about loving our neighbor would really, I think, be useful for us.

In preparing for this podcast, I kept thinking of Henry Coleridge's Sonnet 7, which you may recognize from movies and other things, but he begins by asking a very important question. Is love a fancy or a feeling? And he responds, no, it is immortal as immaculate truth. Tis not a blossom shed as soon as youth drops from the stem of life, for it will grow.

Bishop DeDe (02:22.934)
in barren regions where no waters flow, nor rays of promise cheats the pence of gloom, a darkling fire faint hovering o'er a tomb. This wonderful imagery, and I think this is why this sonnet is utilized so much and comes back, is it brings out these very emotive ways of talking about that love is more than feeling happy, having...

you know, for someone, it's more than a kind of feeling, but love is always regeneratively coming back. And then of course with Jesus, we talked a bit about Jesus saying, you know, to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. But then Jesus talks about loving our neighbor as ourself. The temptation can be to say that we always love ourselves. And that's

While we all might always be self-seeking in some way, I think most of us know we don't actually love ourselves all that well. We push ourselves too hard. We're our worst critic. When we do pay attention to that meta discourse in our head, it is often degrading ourselves or why did you do this? Or I should have done that. And what's wrong with me? And why does anybody care about me? And to be...

a person who offers love is to be a person who experiences love first. We can't offer something we don't know anything about. So when you think about your feelings about yourself, how are those being put out, put on to other people? It is a truism and psychology tells us that we often are mad at other people when they do things that we do.

And we know that they're wrong, but we get particularly mad at someone else for doing it, where we make an excuse for ourself. So loving our neighbor as ourself is a very complex reality when you think about it. To offer love to someone and compassion and mercy is to feel compassion and mercy and love for ourselves. And I wonder for the listeners, how often you're compassionate with yourself.

Bishop DeDe (04:44.962)
Now not talking about indulgence, because again, this is how complex love is. I think it takes us all of our life to figure it out. But when you think how complex it is to not wallow in self-pity, not to be self-indulgent and, I never want to do anything where I'm not comfortable, but rather where we love ourselves doing what's right for ourselves in each situation. Sometimes saying no, sometimes saying yes, but always being attentive to

Adam Eichelberger (04:51.945)
Right.

Bishop DeDe (05:15.532)
the caring, compassion, grace, and mercy, forgiving ourselves when we fail, offering ourselves an opportunity to make amends, to be intentional about making amends. When you think about loving someone else, I often think of people who are caregivers for the agent or the infirm. The care that goes into tending every bodily function,

that goes into all of the work that is involved in caring for another. It can be very difficult and challenging. And I would say that if you're listening and you are a caregiver for someone, you're well aware that there are days that go by where that feeling of euphoric love or chipperness may not necessarily be part of your everyday experience.

Adam Eichelberger (06:11.655)
Right.

Bishop DeDe (06:13.122)
But you're making decisions for the betterment of the other person. You're making decisions where you're really truly seeking what's best for them. And so when I apply that to how we love our neighbor, I think about those times when we try to reach out to our neighbor, maybe our physical geographic neighbor, and we're nice to them, and then they're hateful back. And then our temptation is to say, well, that didn't work.

well, I tried loving my neighbor, but that just didn't get me anywhere. Well, I'm not sure that caring for someone in order to get something is exactly what love actually is. And for that, I think we have to turn to Paul, using a lot of scripture here, but I think we start off with scripture helps root us in this conversation. Paul talks about, course, if I speak with tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I'm a noisier clanging gong.

such a wonderful metaphor. I think we've been around people who are a noisy clanging kong, who are like, you're so great. And we know that if we were really hurting, if we really needed care, they would not be the person who's there anymore. They would disappear like smoke. And then it talks about having prophetic powers and mysteries and all that all the power of the universe. But do not have love.

then I am nothing. And then he describes the inherent nature of love. And for us, I think that's so important when we're speaking about it. Love is patient. Love is kind. Love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way, is not irritable or resentful. It does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth.

It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. And I wonder for all of us when we have experienced love like that, the not insisting on our own way. I remember times as a newlywed or in relationships where I have felt that I really love someone.

Bishop DeDe (08:38.348)
But then I realized that what I'm really doing is being almost coercive and wanting that person to be like I want them to be, rather than offering them love with an invitation to be their full, whole self, whether I like it or not. Loving our neighbor is hard. And in this time with fires burning in California, in this time with all that's happening in the world, with partisan politics, with the vision,

with all that is around us, the noise of life. To love our neighbor, I think, looks different than what we often think. It is not having affection for, it is not a fancy or a feeling, but it is immovable truth. How we act toward another is the measure of who we are. And when we love our neighbor, we will find love for ourselves.

And when we find true love for ourselves, we are able to love our neighbor with compassion, not judging them based on their worthiness, but rather seeing their inherent value for God. Well, that was a lot. That was just a lot of scripture and things. Adam, you, what are some questions or what are some things that come to your mind in this conversation?

Adam Eichelberger (09:57.119)
One of the first things that came to my mind as I heard you talking about this bishop is I was reminded of a long time ago when I was doing the important I had the important conversation with my now father-in-law and for the listeners listening in audio I'm using air quotes asking his blessing to get married to my now wife I asked for his advice and

Bishop DeDe (10:21.189)
Good end listeners, here it comes. Yeah.

Adam Eichelberger (10:26.267)
I won't say that he, my father-in-law, and I'm sorry if you're listening, always gives the best advice. I think that sometimes we get good advice, sometimes we get bad advice, but he did say something to me that really stuck with me even all these years later. And that is that love is a decision, a choice we make every day. And as I'm hearing you talk about all of these things when it comes to how we love our neighbor, my question for you, Bishop, is this, how can we make the decision

Bishop DeDe (10:44.536)
Right.

Adam Eichelberger (10:56.297)
to love people on a daily basis because they think that that can be hard. So how can we make that decision every day?

Bishop DeDe (11:03.838)
and absolutely. It is a discipline. I think if we could think of love more like any discipline you may have in your life, it's something that we have to cultivate. When we first start out to be intentional about loving others and no matter our age, I think we can live a certain amount of time before this becomes something where we think, you know, I'm contributing to the problem of hate or I'm contributing to the problem.

greed or avarice or whatever it is, I want to contribute love. And we can think for long periods of time that we're actually doing that. We have those moments of clarity where we realize, no, we're really selfishly motivated. And there is a great debate about whether there is anything called altruism or if everything is merely a self-fulfilling, you know, trying to get something for ourself. That aside and repenting of that sinfulness, the understanding of love

is to choose to love. In this situation, I can say all the hateful words, I can do all the judging I want to do, I can be mean and intolerant, take a deep breath, focus in on Jesus, and make a decision for love. It be imperfect, there are times when we think we're being loving, we really are not, but it is the intention and the desire to try that as Merton would tell us, it pleases God.

When we look to Jesus on the cross, mean, Jesus lives his whole life walking with the disciples, young life, not a very old life, but he walks with the disciples. On the cross, that is what love ultimately, and ultimate love looks like. And so when we're in a situation, it's deciding to be loving, where we'd really rather be selfish or hateful. And then taking a deep breath, and always, I think when we truly are loving,

there'll be a moment where it kind of eases, where it sort of comes back to us and where it doesn't matter what the other person's response is, because we're making decision of intentionality. We've been talking about intentionality in the new year. We're making an intentional decision to be part of the movement of God. And so I think we grow in capacity. Sometimes we can only be loving, you know, for one moment a day, and then we grow to two moments a day, and then we get to, you know, more time.

Adam Eichelberger (13:12.127)
That's right.

Adam Eichelberger (13:23.284)
Mm.

Bishop DeDe (13:27.854)
but it is a discipline and it comes with practice and just really intentionally thinking what would love look like here? Yeah.

Adam Eichelberger (13:37.599)
And one of the things that reminds me of Bishop and you said that is sometimes one of the most loving things that we can do when we're trying our best to love people is when we make the mistakes and when we kind of fall off that wagon is starting over, like you said, and saying, I'm sorry. When we really feel like we've dropped the ball. So I did have two questions from some friends who listen and they kind of all interplay with this. One of them is about neighbors and one of them is about

the people in our home. So the first one is this. This listener wrote and kind of shared about how it seems that there are a lot of new faces in their neighborhood. Some of them are people that seem to be, seem to have relocated to our general area from another country. And the listener asked, what are some ways that I can identify and love my neighbors, especially when things around us seem so difficult?

Bishop DeDe (14:08.876)
Okay.

Bishop DeDe (14:37.506)
Such a good question. And I think all of us have to ponder that and come to a decision in our own hearts. I mean, I think we can sort of know that, first of all, loving someone has some acceptance to it. So if somebody is from a different country and has different habits, different food, to check our judgment or check our desire for sameness at the door.

to begin by us with curiosity. I think curiosity is a great help with loving our neighbor rather than assuming we know something to not believe everything we think and ask a question. I noticed that you don't cut your lawn. Can you tell me more about that? know, kind of, and truthfully being curious, not, you know, where we're asking a question where we have an answer that they should give to us.

Adam Eichelberger (15:33.629)
Right, not going in with an agenda.

Bishop DeDe (15:33.838)
Yeah, tell me that you're going to cut that, right? But where we actually are asking with curiosity that maybe we can learn something from difference or maybe we, you know, have gotten so used to things being our way that we're missing out on the opportunity to meet God in a totally different way. Love at times is very uncomfortable and awkward.

I mean, I remember doing, there's a wedding that comes to my mind that was way out of my comfort zone in terms of, it was a wedding that was not being held at a church and I had agreed to do it. And there was a lot about the wedding that was not really in my comfort zone at all. And I kept thinking, okay, what would loving look like here? that means for both of us, it isn't that I'm gonna.

allow myself to do things I feel lack integrity or wrong, but I'm also going to be present in a way that's not judgmental. And so there's a balance there. So there were things that I said, no, we're not going to do that. And yes, we're going to do this. We're not going to dance up the aisle. That was one of the things. No, we're not going to do that. But we will do these other things and I'll be flexible with these things. the whole wedding for me just was uncomfortable because I I'm used to doing weddings a certain way.

you know, we have a performance, so this is what we do. And this was different, and it was multicultural, and it had some different nuances to it. And I just kept allowing myself to be uncomfortable, and at the same time, make sure that I wasn't crossing a boundary for myself. And after the wedding, long past, several weeks later, there were a couple of people who came to the church where I was the priest.

because at the wedding they had felt so welcomed and affirmed in their differences that they were curious about our faith. And it ended up being a wonderful meeting place, but it started in an anxious place for me. So I think when we encounter difference or we encounter new opportunities to not have to feel so comfortable all the time, but to just

Bishop DeDe (17:55.87)
offer what know, Rogerian therapy would say is unconditional personal regard to be curious, be interested, listen, figure out what does this mean for the other person. And then when we have an understanding that we can say, okay, so for you, not cutting your grass is a value. For me, not cutting the grass has all kinds of other problems.

How can we compromise on this? And to honor that both people can have good intentions but disagree. Curiosity, think, just one of... Curiosity and humility need to make a comeback. I say that all the time. That's where we say that a lot. I just think they do. Curiosity and humility will help us in not judging and isolating.

Adam Eichelberger (18:40.415)
Yeah.

Adam Eichelberger (18:50.655)
I like that a lot. Curiosity needs to make a comeback. That reminds me of a, what was it in Ted Lasso where he quotes, he quotes, think Walt Whitman, is it a be curious, not judgmental. I like that.

Bishop DeDe (18:52.876)
you

Bishop DeDe (18:58.112)
Right. Exactly. It's Walt was right about that. Yeah.

Adam Eichelberger (19:03.655)
And then the second one that I have from a listener who goes by the name Danny. Danny shared a story about how, especially over the last several years, their partner and them have seemed to develop differing beliefs about how things are going in the world around them and maybe things like politics and things like that. And it's becoming a little bit of a strain at home.

Bishop DeDe (19:09.185)
huh.

Bishop DeDe (19:28.43)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (19:29.987)
And it's appropriate that we're talking about loving our neighbor because sometimes the neighbor is the person that we share a home with. Danny asked, how can I love my partner when we seem to disagree on some important fundamental things?

Bishop DeDe (19:44.066)
Wow, Danny, and thank you for that question. This is really a complex question. So I want to first highlight, if you're disagreeing about something where you're not feeling safe, where there's name calling or there's some sort of the relationship is taking a turn, that would be a time to seek a counselor or to seek some clarity about what appropriate boundaries or mores are in your relationship. So I want to name that right away.

because I don't know the situation. I think it is hard with people we live with when we have deep, passionate disagreement about partisan politics or what is true and right and good. And each person being valued for their viewpoint while seeking common ground really becomes very essential. If one person is not willing to

be conciliatory to the other. It's kind of a game stopper. So the one person has to decide how important is this to me. It also is important to think to what degree does this differing opinion about a partisanship, let's use music. So one person loves Kendrick Lamar and one person's a big Drake fan. Okay, so right there, you know.

Adam Eichelberger (21:10.591)
Ooh, good reference, I like it.

Bishop DeDe (21:12.802)
Thank you. So right there, other than playing music in the house or around each other, does it really matter that we have this difference of opinion when it comes to our fundamental relationship? No, these are ancillary things. can also, we can listen to Alicia Keys or Beyonce or, you know, Taylor Swift or somebody else, Mozart. But so we have to decide how

you know, is this a core difference or is this kind of window dressing difference? If it's a core difference, that may need to be something we work with a counselor on or actually do some work around how both people can be valued and heard. And so it is complex. And the more that we're talking about loving our neighbor, and it gets more more intimate to where it is somebody in our home.

then the stakes obviously go up because some things can actually not be core issues but feel like they're core issues. Like if you really like Drake then there's something wrong. We can get all feisty about that. I take no sides in the Kendrick Lamar Drake thing. So just want to put that out there. This is my declaration of not taking a side.

Adam Eichelberger (22:34.463)
That's an official statement from the bishop.

Bishop DeDe (22:41.71)
But we have to work it out. think Paul tells us at one point to work out our faith, like iron sharpening iron, to incite one another to good works. There is, you know, the Christian faith is hard. I think one of the reasons we pass over love your neighbors yourself is because it's so incomprehensibly hard. We'd rather talk about other stuff. We'd rather talk about music at the service or we'd rather talk about, you know, something else.

Adam Eichelberger (23:05.481)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (23:10.422)
because it is so hard to talk about something as significant as loving someone. So I think honoring your inner sense of safety and self, honoring the safety and self of the other, and then seeking ways to compromise, but also to work through some of these places that may need more than just a conversation. And then of course, when we talk about it, to try to have boundaries around how we fight.

You know, we don't call each in this house, we don't call each other names in this house. We, you know, separate when we need to cool down in this house. We do these things as a way of negotiating conflict.

Adam Eichelberger (23:40.415)
Hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (23:53.215)
Those are really important things for us to keep in mind, especially like you said, because we start with this bigger picture of who our neighbors are. And as we think about it and are really mindful of it. And like you mentioned in our last episode, we're intentional about it. Sometimes those circles, while they remain, they start to get smaller and smaller and we need to be mindful of those things as they get smaller and smaller. Well, Bishop, what are some of your final thoughts as you take us out for this week about loving our neighbor and about love?

Bishop DeDe (23:55.768)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (24:01.806)
you

Bishop DeDe (24:14.958)
That's right.

Bishop DeDe (24:23.81)
Well, be patient with ourselves. We're not good at it. We're great at revenge. We got that down. Hatred, we're pretty cool about. mean, we're good at anxiety and fear. I think we're successful with depression, but we struggle with love. And I'm sounding like I'm being catty, which in a way I'm trying to be funny about it, but I'm also serious. It is hard for us to love one another. And the reason Jesus commands us to this is not a good...

good idea, it's a command, is because that is what salvation is. I fundamentally believe that as we learn to love others, that we are saved. Because the love of Jesus heals us in this life and the next. And so to start with loving our neighbor, to be compassionate, that we're not that great at it, but that we want to be great at it. To give it over to God and to...

to be intentional about creating opportunities, to exercise our ability to love another person, to learn, to seek to learn and be curious again, and then to not give up. If we love and we are hurt or we love and it doesn't go as we've planned, the acceptance of ourself and others that we're all doing our best to live lives.

And so we blow it all the time. And so the humility to know that God is always offering us forgiveness and restoration. So we try to love one another. We reach out. If it's wrong or if we've made a mistake, we apologize. We work on forgiveness and seek to forgive and to allow space for everyone to heal. And then to recognize there are times when the most loving thing we can do is to say no.

I cannot subject myself to this situation anymore. I am going to let go of trying to change this. I'm going to accept what is and then seek to love by in ways that are affirming that sometimes it just takes more than our intention. So dear listener, as you're thinking about loving your neighbor and in this week, I invite you each day to know it's new every morning. May have blown it yesterday, may have blown it this last hour.

Bishop DeDe (26:49.358)
Take a deep breath, give it to God, receive God's blessing and forgiveness that we are imperfect and try again to reach out in ways that we can to offer love to one another, that we may be loved in return and that we may find our salvation in the ongoing eternal work of God's love. I pray that you will know that you are loved, that you will be blessed and be a blessing. And I look forward to seeing you at

and talking with you and speaking of our faith on our next podcast. Take good care.