Christmas - What's It Really About?

Summary

In this episode of Speaking of Faith, Bishop DeDe and Adam discusses the true meaning of Christmas from a Christian perspective, emphasizing the significance of the incarnation of God. She explores the historical context of Christmas, the importance of repentance, and how to live out the joy of the incarnation throughout the year. The conversation also addresses the challenges of modern Christmas celebrations and how to reclaim the essence of the holiday by focusing on its spiritual significance.


Takeaways

• Christmas is a celebration of the incarnation of God.
• The communal celebration of Christmas often overshadows its true meaning.
• Repentance is about changing our minds and aligning with God.
• Living out the incarnation means embodying Jesus' teachings in daily life.
• The essence of Christmas is found in quiet reflection and relationship with God.
• Big productions can distract from the true message of Christmas.
• Each day is an opportunity to celebrate the incarnation of God.
• We are invited to welcome God into the messiness of our lives.
• The joy of the incarnation should be lived out year-round, not just at Christmas.
• God's love is the foundation of our faith and relationships.

Chapters

00:00 Understanding the Essence of Christmas
08:11 The Meaning of Repentance in Faith
12:52 Living the Incarnation in Daily Life
17:04 Reclaiming the True Spirit of Christmas
22:39 Embracing the Joy of the Incarnation Year-Round

AI Disclosure: To support our staff in their limited time, many of our episode summaries are first generated by AI and then edited by the Communications Director to accurately reflect and preview our podcast episodes.

Transcript

Bishop DeDe (00:03.118)
Hello friends, welcome to the podcast, Speaking of Faith. We're gonna be speaking about our faith today, whatever your faith may be. Today's podcast is gonna be about Christmas, the Christ Mass, and what it is that we're celebrating as Christians around Christmas. My name is DeDe Duncan-Probe. I'm the Episcopal Bishop of Central New York. I'm joined by Adam Eichelberger. He is our Director of Communication.

And we're going to talk about what it is we are actually celebrating this season and talk a little bit about the history, but more an opportunity for us to speak about our faith and what we're hoping Christmas could be for us. Not only this year, each day going forward, what is our lived understanding of the incarnation of God? And so first I want to start off by sharing a bit of a story. A number of years ago, one of my children in their school.

they were talking about different religious holidays during the season, whether it's Ramadan or Hanukkah. so each day they would come home talking about the sacred celebrations. And so on one day of the week, I asked my child, said, know, what are they, who's gonna talk about Christianity? And my child said,

well, they figured we hear about Christianity all the time with Santa Claus and everything. And I will say that at the time I was a priest. So, and now as a bishop, I'd probably be even more bold. I found that kind of raised my hackles a little bit because, you know, the, communal kind of social celebration of Christmas with, you know, Jolly St. Nicholas, and, these, these sort of iconic.

aspects of this holiday do not speak to the truth of what this holiday is as Christians. Because what we are celebrating as people who love Jesus and follow God is yes, the birth of Jesus and even more so this incarnation of God, the indwelling of God in us, Emmanuel God with us, that leads us to both repentance and leads us to resurrection and new life.

Bishop DeDe (02:26.848)
And so in our celebrations, it's very important to recognize that what we're celebrating as people of faith is distinctly different from maybe the holiday music that's on the channel or the things that are being talked about. Even at times when we're trying to be good Christians, when we talk about Jesus is the reason for the season, it sounds like it's very important.

And in one way it actually is. Christmas is about the birth of the Christ child. It's about the incarnation of God. However, what we often do with that is when we talk about Jesus as the reason for the season, we negate the fact that actually most of what we love about Christmas is pagan. This, you know, at the very beginning with Saturnalia,

the Roman holiday that had to do with, that was on December 17th and celebrations that would happen that were a lot like Mardi Gras. That was more when they first started talking about the birth of Jesus. It was connected with the pagan holiday. And it's interesting to note that in America, Christmas was actually outlawed for a number of years. It was illegal to celebrate it. Then there were times when it was just,

seen as an unpatriotic thing to do, that it was associated with England. And so we don't celebrate Christmas here because we're refuting the monarchy of England. But in the late 1800s, you know, probably Samuel Morse with the Twas the Night Before Christmas really cemented it in the sort of iconic part of our being, this idea of the night before Christmas and all through the house.

I will say my seminary is where Samuel Moore actually taught and was. And so we every year would have a big festival for him because in recognition, excuse me, of that fact. But really to get back to the incarnation of God is to kind of reach beyond these icons that we hold up.

Bishop DeDe (04:51.352)
to see what it is that God is with us, that God comes to us in our humanity, birthed as a human, coming to us as a baby with an invitation to relationship that's fundamental. In Christianity, our entire faith is about relationship, relationship, relationship. Our relationship with God, God's relationship with us, and our relationship with one another.

that God is incarnated as an infant for us to love and care for, and this incarnated infant saves us. One of the things that we talk a little bit about in Advent, but sometimes need to, I think, highlight more, is repentance. Because in order to really celebrate Christmas, we have to begin with repentance. That God's incarnation, God's indwelling means we need God.

We are not self-sufficient. We are not whole in and of ourselves, but we actually need the salvation that God's incarnation brings to us. And we change our mind about who we think God may be. God ceases to be some, you know, far away extant being and becomes something that's birthed into and part of our very being.

We're invited like Mary to be bearers of God, to repent of our selfishness or what we thought our life would be about and to offer our lives to God. It's also an invitation for us to come to an understanding, a deeper understanding of our very humanity. We blow it all the time. We're selfish, we're insecure, we're all the things that we are as humans.

But God's love is what makes us whole and strong and good that the incarnation of God offers to us an opportunity to not only be made better or to encounter God, but to have God's being in us to be with us, that God is with us when we're happy or sad. And in this season, if you've been struggling with grief or sorrow, we've talked about this on the podcast.

Bishop DeDe (07:12.63)
Our Christian faith meets you there. No longer is Christmas seen as just sort of a celebration that's sort of about social activities, but a deep and profound meaning of drawing close to Jesus. It is extremely different, I think, from the way that Christianity is talked about with sleigh bells ringing and silver bells and things like that. But our Christian faith and speaking of faith as people who believe in Jesus.

is to speak about the birth of the Christ child and what it means in our very souls that God has come to be with us in truth and light. So I don't know if there's any questions that have come up, Adam, in this time or things. I would love to go very deeply into this. I love to talk about like, exmus, and there's a time when people very worked about that exmus was trying to remove

Adam Eichelberger (07:57.36)
Mm.

Bishop DeDe (08:11.33)
the word Christ from Christ mass. And in fact, X is, it's taking it back to its origins of being the Greek letter of the alphabet for Christ. So Xmas is Christ mass. But there's so much rich and deep and meaningful here. But I think for today's podcast, zeroing in on this event of God's incarnation. what, what are some questions or things that have come up about this?

Adam Eichelberger (08:12.848)
Hmm

Adam Eichelberger (08:22.768)
Mm.

Adam Eichelberger (08:41.708)
yeah, Bishop. so we have one or two questions that a few of our friends had asked that we're gonna go over in a second, but there's two things that kind of jumped into my mind that I wanted to talk about. And one of them is this. You talked a little bit ago, and we've kind of brought this up on previous episodes of the podcast and talking about Advent. You talked about that word, repentance. And so what I wanted to ask is, when you talk about repentance,

Bishop DeDe (08:51.502)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (08:59.992)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (09:06.935)
Mm.

Adam Eichelberger (09:10.256)
What does that mean for us as people of faith in, I'm gonna say 2025, even though you still have a week left listeners, when you're hearing this. What does it look like in 2025? And I ask that because I think that for some of us, myself included, sometimes that word becomes an ugly word, it's a scary word. There's this like a mentality of like, know, self-adulation and you know, or like, so what does repentance look like for us?

Bishop DeDe (09:15.598)
Right.

Bishop DeDe (09:34.358)
Right? That's right. That's right.

Adam Eichelberger (09:39.28)
2025.

Bishop DeDe (09:40.416)
Well, I'm really glad you asked that because I, I talk about this a lot, but if listener, if you haven't heard me talk about this, you might, this might be a triggering word for you. Cause it is a triggering word because repentance in the past has meant, has really been used to dehumanize. it's been, it's been used to say, you're not enough. You need to change who you are. God can't love you as you are. God doesn't love you. And in fact, in the Greek, repentance or repent.

means to change your mind. And in the Hebrew, it means to turn with sorrow back to the ways of God. It is an act of shifting our focus, if almost. To repent is to say, you know, what I'm doing isn't working for me. I need to change my mind. I need to remember or to tune myself to a different way of seeing this. And so to repent is to recognize

our lack of self-sufficiency, to recognize that it's just not working, and to realize that there's something here that we may need to learn or to align our lives with. So when I talk about repentance, I am really talking about those inherent focusing, turning our hearts, lifting our hearts to the ways of God. And if it is triggering for you, I want to say.

you are loved by God and our repentance is not an act of self-flagellation, but rather opening up, responding to the invitation of God to align ourselves with the truth that God brings to us.

Adam Eichelberger (11:25.658)
You know, and that's, that's really good for me to remember too, because I mean, I know that, like in my background, being raised in the Roman Catholic church, which, mean, there were some really beautiful things about, I do remember having some experiences with like, when we talk about things like confession and having that being sometimes a really great thing, you know, there, there are some times where I encountered really good priests who are really compassionate and

Bishop DeDe (11:42.668)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (11:46.47)
yeah.

Adam Eichelberger (11:52.144)
full of grace in that situation. And then there were some times, like I think that maybe some of you listeners, if you ever went through that, where you got yelled at and beaten up a little bit in the confessional box. And I think that it's really good for me to remember that like, those two things aren't the same thing when it comes to talking about repentance.

Bishop DeDe (12:00.386)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (12:08.967)
Mm. Not at all. Right.

Adam Eichelberger (12:12.88)
And again, this one is more as I'm kind of thinking about this and listener, I don't know if you're thinking about this too. But as we're talking about going into 2025 and you started talking about this term of incarnation, Jesus being among us, what does it look like for us to be mindful of Jesus becoming one of us as we look ahead at 2025? Because I think

Bishop DeDe (12:34.101)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (12:37.744)
You've shared this bishop and I think that maybe some of you listeners have shared similar sentiments that there's a lot of stuff on the horizon that can be a little can drum up a lot of feelings, maybe even some worry and some trepidation. What does it look like for us to be mindful of Jesus as we look at 2025 and beyond?

Bishop DeDe (12:43.724)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (12:52.762)
Mm-hmm. That's a great question, especially in this time, as you say, as we're looking forward into the future. Really, it starts with believing Jesus, that the way that Jesus calls us to live is the highest order, that it's the best way. Sometimes I'll hear people say to me, well, I know Jesus would say this, but I think as if Jesus is outdated or outmoded or doesn't really get it.

And I think first and foremost, when we think of ourselves as being incarnational people, as bearers of God, it's to believe that the way God, the way Jesus calls us to live is the best path for our life. So forgiveness, care for our neighbor, compassion, grace, mercy, that those values are.

helpful values, that they're not outmoded, that love is stronger than hate, that forgiveness is preferable, and that, you know, that revenge corrupts our souls. That in order to incarnate God is to be about the things God would be about. And that comes to mind for me first, because sometimes our faith in Jesus can be, you know, something that is...

more of a mental exercise than an actual act of piety where we're aligning our very lives, the way we speak, the things we do, that in each moment of our lives we're attentive to, is this aligned with my beliefs, what I'm doing here? I think also the way we incarnate Jesus is to really have, develop our spiritual imagination. It's easy to get caught up in thinking that what

we feel or see is the only thing that's present. There is a movement, a long time ago, and I think this movement kind of of pendulums back and forth, but to imagine the presence of Jesus, to really, you know, in a situation when you're at work, when you're driving in a car, when you're at the supermarket, whatever it is you're doing, to really picture and focus in on Jesus.

Bishop DeDe (15:14.218)
walking with you in that space, to practice the presence of Jesus in each moment. And then to listen to how we talk or what we're doing through the eyes of how it aligns with the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is a high level of piety right there, because I will say, dear listener, if you start to do this, you'll quickly realize, I don't know if Jesus would be crazy about that.

Adam Eichelberger (15:32.197)
Mm.

Adam Eichelberger (15:41.475)
you

Bishop DeDe (15:44.0)
You know, and to listen to how we are, and then in each of those situations, to speak words, to seek to act in ways that are proclamations of the truth we hold so dear. That in a situation where we confront the racism in a way, we offer invitation to a new way of being. When we hear the word that is said, we say, you know,

I'm uncomfortable with using those terms because I think they dehumanize. These are my siblings in Christ. This is who I am as a follower of Jesus. And to reaffirm our faith in the way we act, to recognize that in the person we're talking to and within us, Jesus is present. And so we practice that presence and we speak from a place of proclamation of our beliefs.

Adam Eichelberger (16:36.45)
like that. Okay, so we do have two questions from some of our friends who have joined us listening and watching. And if you dear listener ever wanted to ask us a question, some of you have already taken advantage of it. But if you go to our website for the podcast, if you go to cnyepiscopal.org slash podcast, there's a form right there where you can ask questions for Bishop Dee Dee. And I will ask them for you. I'm happy to be your mouthpiece. This one is from a listener named Dan. And Dan asks this.

What are ways that we as people of faith can reclaim, and that's in air quotes, reclaim Christmas? And I think this is kind of a good one. I think maybe Dan and I are seeing some of the same things on our social media feeds. You're seeing a lot of video this year of like maybe some churches in different places that have these really like huge Christmas productions, like guys on like zip lines with drums and there's pyro and.

Bishop DeDe (17:17.666)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (17:30.99)
Cirque du Soleil people, yeah.

Adam Eichelberger (17:33.836)
Exactly. We're seeing a lot of that and I think that we're starting to see some folks both within the Christian community and obviously from the outside who are kind of like, this feels not good. So without being like heavy handed or getting into like ugly things like culture wars or something, how do we as people of faith reclaim Christmas?

Bishop DeDe (17:45.964)
Right.

Bishop DeDe (17:52.611)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (17:56.734)
such a good question and so, so hard sometimes to get our hands or arms around that. You know, and those spectacles, I think well intentioned, meaning to proclaim Jesus, but then making Jesus kind of a sideshow or a laughing stock or I remember I was at a huge production one time and it was spectacular until at the very end, they started telling the story of Jesus.

And the way that they told it, was so, just like what you're saying with, you know, all the bells and whistles, became kind of a caricature. And in a way it became a fantasy where that there's some alternate reality out there where there's singing, whistling elves and stuff. And, and maybe there are, I mean, who knows alternate realities, big topic right now, string theory. don't know, but I can say.

Adam Eichelberger (18:47.472)
You

Bishop DeDe (18:51.618)
that the truth of the incarnation of God is less that. And while that is a return, that's actually a return in the early days back in the 1600s, 700s, even earlier in the 300s, there was a time when the celebration of Christmas was much more Mardi Gras than what we envision now. So in some ways, that's kind of a re, the cycle, we've come back around to the

Adam Eichelberger (19:19.418)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (19:21.654)
the top of the cycle. But for us to draw close to the incarnation of God is to draw close to the silent night more. That here you have refugees who are unwanted, sleeping with the animals. This is not heraldry. This is God coming in the midst of messiness. And I think whenever we celebrate the incarnation,

incarnation of God. If we forget to welcome God in the being of being, then I think we've missed it. Because we kind of want to clean it up. We want to have the stall where Jesus is born be kind of nice and clean. We know animals and probably there was, it was clean enough, maybe. But in the messiness of our life, God is coming to be with us in this moment.

And that is a quiet, profound reality that we don't need to spiffy ourselves up. And while these big productions may help us feel like we're not alone, the reality of feeling not alone is to actually have a relationship with something that's deep and profound and meaningful. So to build into our time opportunities for sitting

quietly with loved ones and praying, or reading the passage from scripture and just letting it wash over our souls, to take opportunities for quiet walks and to think about what it is to live this life, knowing that the creator of all of this loves us and is healing us and renewing us, to make sure that in our Christmas celebrations, there's some reality where it's not all fantasy, but

in the places where we may be grieving or hurting to welcome Jesus to those places for healing. And that gets us back a little bit to when I was talking about repentance, that we come into Christmas through repentance to change our minds, that it's not about trying to make Jesus seem good enough, but to recognize that Jesus is greater than we know and to change our mind and how we want to live the incarnation.

Bishop DeDe (21:48.588)
some of the most profound Christmas moments I've had have been totally unrelated to a church or a service or a Christmas tree or they have been moments of meeting Jesus in an embodied way in a situation. And so I think allowing ourselves to look past the kind of carnival show.

Adam Eichelberger (22:15.696)
Mm-hmm.

Bishop DeDe (22:16.468)
and recognize there's a truth in this that is beyond all knowing.

Adam Eichelberger (22:23.344)
And then the last question I have, and this is from a listener named Bridget. And apparently Bridget has been paying attention because she's using some stuff from previous episodes. So shout out to you, Bridget, for paying attention.

Bishop DeDe (22:32.27)
I love that Bridget. And thank you Dan. This is great. all right Bridget, what do we've got?

Adam Eichelberger (22:39.822)
So Bridget wants to ask, how can we live out the joy of the incarnation during the rest of the year, not just during the Christmas season?

Bishop DeDe (22:49.778)
Yes, and Bridget, well done you. you know, Christmas, the incarnation of God is new every morning. Our Christmas calendar helps us organize our thoughts around these, you know, major events or sacred moments. But each day God is birthed in us. We have an opportunity to wake up in the morning and for the creation is new every morning. understanding of each morning creation.

is birthed into life. Each morning our opportunity for celebrating Jesus this day. You know, there are people who want to listen to Christmas music year round and I think, you know, okay. I would hazard to say though, and this is one of my soap boxes, is the music we associate with Christmas actually Christian? Sometimes. Not often, usually those are the hymns. But, a little town of Bethlehem. But to,

Adam Eichelberger (23:40.783)
Hmm.

Bishop DeDe (23:50.2)
to allow ourselves to lean into and embrace the incarnation of God in each moment of each day is a really sacred practice and is not just something for a moment. It is something that we carry with us and to connect as people of Christian faith, Christmas with Easter, to see this movement of God, the incarnation of God that comes to us that

teaches us about how to live the passion of Jesus, the salvation of Jesus, and then the resurrection that brings us into new life. Again, birthing within us, always the resurrection, the new life, the coming. is a movement that is compelling throughout the year.

Adam Eichelberger (24:40.592)
That's really good. Well, we thank you so much listeners for your questions and we thank you so much for joining us as we have this discussion as we talk about our faith when it comes to Christmas. Bishop, what are your final thoughts with our time together this week?

Bishop DeDe (24:44.289)
Absolutely.

Bishop DeDe (24:54.668)
Well, my encouragement to all of us here in 2024, and as you say before, you know, the events of whatever 2025 New Year's will bring that in this moment, we take some sacred time in the midst of all the heraldry. mean, there's wonderful things about the lights and the all the things that go with Christmas. But in the midst of that, to tend our souls, to be compassionate with ourselves, to allow ourselves to know that we are accepted and loved by God.

that God has come to you and to me, that God has come to us because God loves us. And so in this time to not be overwhelmed by the world or the fears of the world or the questions about what is to come, but in this moment to tend ourselves and know that God is here, that God is enough and that in relationship with one another, we find hope for the day.

And so my prayer for all of us in this Christmas tide is that we will draw close to the incarnation of Jesus, that we will be attentive to incarnating Jesus and how we live, and that we too will find hope and healing to offer to others around us. And so dear listener, may you be blessed and be a blessing. I wish you a very Merry Christmas. May the incarnation of Jesus fill you, sustain you, heal you, renew you.

and guide you into new joyous ways of being. Blessings this day.